Tactical Response at it again. Dangerous and Unprofessional ?

[Rookie]

Could have a million safety systems, and if something manages to strike the trigger just right, you're screwed.

I'm not sure I agree with you. Maybe we could get someone from Tactical Response to verify.

 

[17 squirrel]

I'm not sure I agree with you. Maybe we could get someone from Tactical Response to verify.

If you call don't expect a answer, Cell service is gennerally poor when your in a ditch.

 

[Tombs]

I'm not sure I agree with you. Maybe we could get someone from Tactical Response to verify.

I think this ND provides an example for you.

Drop a gun, high stress situation, it's entirely possible someone COULD step on it or kick it.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Slowly lowering my gun to the ground by the grip should not get me shot.

In a firing grip, I disagree. You can Google up videos of guys feigning compliance and then shooting. Holding it like a stinky diaper between thumb and forefinger, maybe not. Holding it like you use it, follow commands.

If you doubt this, run it with Simunitions sometime. Sometimes actually comply, sometimes pretend to. The "surrendering" person will get the first shot. Switch places with with the other participant feigning compliance, and still the "surrendering" person will get the first shot. If I hold a gun to my head and decide to turn it on you, the absolute best you can hope for is a simultaneous shot. There's a significant amount of literature to back that up in studies on use of force issues, from both real life incidents and simulated situations with timers and high speed cameras.

 

[Tombs]

In a firing grip, I disagree. You can Google up videos of guys feigning compliance and then shooting. Holding it like a stinky diaper between thumb and forefinger, maybe not. Holding it like you use it, follow commands.

If you doubt this, run it with Simunitions sometime. Sometimes actually comply, sometimes pretend to. The "surrendering" person will get the first shot. Switch places with with the other participant feigning compliance, and still the "surrendering" person will get the first shot. If I hold a gun to my head and decide to turn it on you, the absolute best you can hope for is a simultaneous shot. There's a significant amount of literature to back that up in studies on use of force issues, from both real life incidents and simulated situations with timers and high speed cameras.

Would I be shot if I dropped a gun and it discharged when it hit the ground?

 

[Dead Duck]

For you James Supporters, just be glad his name isn't "Jacques".

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Would I be shot if I dropped a gun and it discharged when it hit the ground?

I'm going to play the odds, personally. The odds of getting shot for non-compliance are much greater than the odds of a modern firearm discharging when dropped, and of someone being injured even if it does.

 

[Double T]

All these 1911 fanboys not willing to drop their guns.


The point isn't that guns are tools and should be beat on. The point is that a fighting gun IS a tool. Which should be used and not worry about dings/scratches/gougues. You should know it inside and out. My favorite hammer isn't pristine and shiny. It's beat all to hell, from use and being inside a toolbox with wrenches and all sorts of odds and ins It's scratched, but it works.0 I'm pretty sure everyone is equating this analogy with gross negligence and care for a firearm. If you use a gun to train, it shouldn't look brand new. If you carry it, it shouldn't look brand new. Not saying that it can't look brand new, its just that more than likely it will get some carry wear.

 

[Hohn]

I bet you have better moves than those guys. You do the high leg kicks, don't you?

5...6..7..8. Kick, 2 .3..4,

 

[Gluemanz28]

Maybe you should carry another gun then.
That's Yeager's point, if you're not willng to drop your gun on the ground during training then you will not do so when a dozen of cops show up and tell you to drop your gun NOW.And you will end up shot by the police.

If you don't want any scratch on your "fighting weapon" maybe you should keep it in nice foam box, in your safe.

I know the French are in the habit of dropping their guns without ever firing them but I am confident in my training methods.

I can have have my weapon field striped, cleaned and holstered before the police arrive. If they happened not to be under staffed and are able to arrive while my weapon is still unholstered I can safely lower my weapon to comply with the officers requests.

Yeager has shown what happens when a weapon is treated in an unsafe manner.

You feel free to do as you feel is best for you and I will do the same.

 

[HoughMade]

INGO seems a lot more upset about the incident than the students that were standing on the range, if those student comments are all true.

Not surprising. They spent money...good money on this.*




*see also: "confirmation bias"

 

[T.Lex]

The point isn't that guns are tools and should be beat on. The point is that a fighting gun IS a tool.

I don't hear anyone arguing contrary. That really isn't the point.

The point is that this instructor did something reckless. At least a little reckless. Probably VERY reckless. (Of course, the point has somewhat morphed into a justification for the recklessness.)

The point about the gun being a tool could be made in way that was safe. If it is a tool, why not shoot it until it is empty THEN throw it on the ground, stomped on and spun, then picked up, reloaded, and shot again. Exact same point, made safely. (Relatively.)

 

[HoughMade]

...The point isn't that guns are tools and should be beat on...

Remind me not to lend you any of my tools. I bet you're the kind of guy who opens paint cans with a chisel, uses vice grips instead of wrenches and pounds a nail with a ball peen hammer.

 

[Double T]

Remind me not to lend you any of my tools.

Again, taking a snippet and misconstruing what was said. Taken completely out of context.

 

[HoughMade]

Again, taking a snippet and misconstruing what was said. Taken completely out of context.

I don't lend my tools to people without a sense of humor either. Strike 2.

 

[Double T]

I have a sense of humor. I just find your lack of sense disturbing

 

[HoughMade]

I have a sense of humor. I just find your lack of sense disturbing

I have so much sense it appears, to the outside observer, to be nonsensical.

 

[LP1]

Please remind me again why a large slice of the population thinks that gun owners are a bunch of crazed yahoos...

 

[bobzilla]

I have got to admit that I'm a little shocked and disturbed at all these people that find it perfectly normal to do something like this, cause an ND and then find ways to defend that.

And we wonder why the masses think all gun owners are reckless and crazy.

 

[Expatriated]

Please remind me again why a large slice of the population thinks that gun owners are a bunch of crazed yahoos...

Cause they come on INGO to see how gun owners act.