Suarez - Your Sights Are Just Training Wheels

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • esrice

    Certified Regular Guy
    Rating - 100%
    20   0   0
    Jan 16, 2008
    24,095
    48
    Indy
    No affiliation, just reposting for INGOers.
    *************************************************

    [FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
    6.gif
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial Black,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]

    YOUR SIGHTS ARE TRAINING WHEELS
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT][FONT=Georgia,Times New Roman,Times,serif]
    By Randy Harris - Suarez International Tier One Instructor

    I am a sighted fire shooter. No doubt. And I am a point shooter. I simply shoot however I need to in order to hit the target as quickly as I can no matter what the target or how far the target. But some see it as an all or nothing, either/or proposition. If you read the internet or gun magazines any at all you are bound to run into a discussion where one side argues that only sighted fire is effective because point shooting is too inaccurate and the other argues that sighted fire is for games and that only unsighted fire is fast enough in a reactive situation.

    Frankly those discussions bore me. The participants seem to be more interested in defending their "gun religion" than actually becoming a better more complete shooter. The truth is somewhere in between, and this is how I see it.

    First thing right off the bat we need to look at is context. When I discuss this I am referring to the use of a pistol in a lethal force situation where one or more individuals are trying to harm another. The distance will typically be anywhere from 2 feet to 20 yards. The distance will largely dictate on one end how precise a shot I need to make and on the other end dictate how fast a shot I need to make. An
    assailant at 3 yards is a much bigger target (spatial perception wise) and a much greater threat than a target at 20 yards. Therefore I will need to shoot faster here due to the increased threat and less time to deal with the problem. But as a fortunate by product of that close proximity I can shoot fast and still score hits on the target with relative ease. On the other hand if I am shooting at someone 20 yards distant I will need to slow down the process so as to be able to make a more precise shot. Fortunately for me the distance is such that he is not as great a threat and I will have time to make that precise shot...hopefully.

    The "point shooting only" crowd will tell you that since it always happens up close there is no point in learning to use the sights. And the "sighted fire only" crowd will tell you that distance is your friend and that the superior accuracy gained by using the sights is a better thing to rely on. So who is right?

    They BOTH are. If I am attacked by someone reaching for a pistol at 3 yards I need to be worried about getting out from in front of him and getting my gun out quickly and hitting him more so than I need to worry about getting a picture perfect sight picture before I press the trigger. On the other hand if I am engaging a target 20 yards distant I need to hopefully get behind cover (if available), slow down, and
    get a precise sight picture before I press off the shots because misses will not profit me. There is a balance to this.

    As for me, I use the sights all the time....as training wheels. What do I mean? I teach people to shoot first by setting the context for how the situation will likely occur. After all you can only solve a problem if you understand the problem.

    Distance will likely be short so I do not start them out shooting bullseyes at 50 yards. I have them shoot a man shaped silhouette at about 4 yards. But I use a small circle in the center to represent an aiming point. I then teach them about how their body works under stress and how your body wants to work to avoid tension. So if our body wants to do "A". in the situation, but we are going to teach it to fight that
    and do "B." does that sound like efficient use of our time? Especially when our body won't do it under stress anyway? Of course not. So if we will naturally drop our weight and curl our shoulders forward then why would we teach "combat " shooting from an upright stance with the gun in front of our face? And if our arms do not naturally extend with our thumbs straight up in the air why do we teach them to orient their arms that way?

    So once we have a grasp of what we are most likely to be doing then we start to build our platform around that. I first teach them to grip the pistol in a manner to not only allow them to point it as naturally as pointing a finger, but also in a manner that reduces felt recoil during firing. I teach them how to draw and extend the pistol in an efficient directional motion that drives it straight at the target
    no matter what position they are in and no matter where the target is in orientation to them. I also teach them to look for the sights. You see, the sights on a pistol are pretty much permanently located in one place. They are on top of the barrel or slide at front and rear of the pistol and one of them sits right above the muzzle. The front sight could be termed a "muzzle reference indicator" because wherever it is, the muzzle is there too.

    Imprinting the draw stroke through repetition and seeing the sights appear on the target over and over again gives neural feedback and builds confidence. They continually drive the gun to the same place and the pattern of always finding the sights lined up there superimposed on the target builds confidence that whether they can see the sights or not, the draw stroke is delivering them to the same place
    every time. Then I have them stop looking through the sights and just look over the top of the gun. They will still be looking at the target spot, but with their head not behind the gun but looking over it.

    They continue to draw and present, but now each time we drop our head behind the sights after we extend to see just how close we are to where we were wanting it to go. Often we are right where we wanted it to be because the gun does not know nor does it care whether you were looking at the sights, it just puts a hole where the muzzle was pointed. That bullethole's location is directly proportional to whether you pointed the muzzle correctly. This is the foundation of shooting well and shooting well on the move. If we cannot drive the gun to the target so the muzzle is pointing at the spot we are focused on while we are standing still, then how will we do it when we move?

    The key though was using the precision of the sights to begin to convince our brain that we were doing it right. The bulk of this mental conditioning can be done without even shooting. If the sights are in line with the barrel, and the sights are pointed at the target spot/focal point when we present the gun to the target then by logic the barrel is now pointed at the target. It does not take long for the students to become familiar with and confident in this. They get to a point where they can bring their head up off the gun and look at the battlefield not just the target and know that the gun will end up pointed at whatever they choose because the draw stroke delivers it where they want it. My dry fire routine is as much or more about driving the gun to the target correctly as it is about pressing the trigger smoothly.

    Now as we progress we look for less and less feedback from the sights. That allows us to make hits faster. We are not taking the time to look for a perfect sight picture. We know the perfect sight picture is there but we do not have to prove it to ourselves by looking for it. We know from experience that the muzzle is getting driven where we need it to go...whether we see it or not. What this leaves us with
    is a faster presentation and the ability to not get tunnel vision on the sights.

    Keeping your head up and being aware of the surroundings and running the gun in your peripheral vision is a key to survival. We are no longer GUN focused but fight focused. We are looking at our adversary not hunting the sights. Why? Because we used the sights appropriately in training until we had internalized the fact that if we project the gun the way our muscle and bone structure works best and that lines the sights up, then we only have to look at the sights if we CHOOSE to in an effort to verify that our work was done properly. Jeff Cooper even said the sights are not used to aim the gun but to verify the gun was aimed correctly.....hmmm.... interesting.

    Of course if we are engaging targets at farther distances we will need more than just faith in our draw stroke to insure hits. My rule of thumb is this. If I am looking at the silhouette of the gun superimposed on the target and the target looks bigger than the gun I do not need the sights. That is if I present the gun to the target and I can still see target surrounding the gun, then I am close enough that looking for the sights will only slow me down. BUT... If I look over the gun at the target and the target (or target area if I'm trying to hit something like a specific spot) is smaller than the gun, then I NEED to use the sights. This little maxim will help you read distance and learn to determine how fast to shoot and how precise to operate the trigger.

    So I absolutely am a sighted fire shooter. If I hit what I am aiming at my sights were in fact aligned properly...whether I saw them or not. So what if I told you I could teach you to shoot accurately without looking at the sights? After all , we use some sightless airsoft guns in the force on Force class and after a brief draw stroke tutorial most everyone is making sighted fire quality hits even with sightless guns. So how is THAT possible? Some would believe it and some would not.

    But regardless I do this regularly and with great success . How ? By first teaching you to look for the sights. By doing that I am letting you use the training wheels until we build your confidence to the point you no longer need them . Sights are training wheels. You use them until you no longer need them and then after that..... just use them when you NEED them.






    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]TO TRAIN WITH RANDY HARRIS http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com
    [/FONT]
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 14, 2009
    6,396
    63
    IN (a refugee from MD)
    1-that's a lot of rambly, disorganized wording to describe building a solid index.

    2-I personally dont consider using the silhouette of the gun to be "unsighted." I'd consider that to be seeing what you need to see to ensure a hit.

    3-using sights does not always mean your focus is on the sights.

    4-Sights do not = slower. he presumes getting feedback from the sights is the same things as a perfect sight picture, and that it somehow relates to speed, which are not true.

    Not sure if I agree with what he wrote or not because his thoughts are too scattered to figure out what the hell he's saying. First he's both a sighted and a point shooter, then he says he's a sighted shooter, then he says he uses the silhouette of the gun for the sights, but ultimately the point was to build a solid index. i think.

    -rvb
     
    Last edited:

    cedartop

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Apr 25, 2010
    6,756
    113
    North of Notre Dame.
    Clearly I am biased so I will try to be fair. My responses in bold.


    1-that's a lot of rambly, disorganized wording to describe building a solid index.

    I see it as a well witten and puncuated article on the sight continuum.

    2-I personally dont consider using the silhouette of the gun to be "unsighted." I'd consider that to be seeing what you need to see to ensure a hit.

    Technically you are not using the "sights" but a visual index. Seeing what you need to see, is correct and something Randy would agree with.

    3-using sights does not always mean your focus is on the sights.

    There are different types of sight focus. If you are using them, some type of focus comes into play.

    4-Sights do not = slower. he presumes getting feedback from the sights is the same things as a perfect sight picture, and that it somehow relates to speed, which are not true.

    Not at all. If you read it, Randy says less feedback from the sights means not getting a perfect sight pcture. Not sure how you could say that taking the time to get a perfect sight picture would not be slower?

    Not sure if I agree with what he wrote or not because his thoughts are too scattered to figure out what the hell he's saying. First he's both a sighted and a point shooter, then he says he's a sighted shooter, then he says he uses the silhouette of the gun for the sights, but ultimately the point was to build a solid index. i think.

    He is saying you can be both a sight and point shooter. The situation will determine how much visual index you look for. From pure point shooting to metal on meat, to precise sight picture. All have their place in the fight continuum. However unlike some point shooting advocate's, I think Randy is saying, train to be a sighted shooter and the point shooting abilities will result from this.

    -rvb
     

    matthewdanger

    Plinker
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Dec 16, 2008
    68
    6
    Good response RVB. Much of what is referred to as point shooting these days is actually crudely sighted fire that uses some point of reference.
     

    John McCreery

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 21, 2010
    2
    1
    Ohio
    What is taught at SI is that point shooting is aimed fire. I think Randy was saying that when he said he is a sighted fire shooter. We discuss how throwing a baseball is like point shooting. You are still aiming, just using a different target focus.

    The speed of point shooting at close contact distances is much faster with an elbow up, elbow down motion as opposed to bringing the gun into your line of sight.
     

    Coach

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Trainer Supporter
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
    48
    Coatesville
    The article sounded like a long drawn out version of "it depends" on the use of sights. Some nice shock value thrown into the title with shots thrown across the bough of both the point shooter and the sight users,because the real truth is both.
     

    riverman67

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jan 16, 2009
    4,105
    48
    Morgan County
    I am struggling with this concept right now in my shooting.
    I am still trying to figure out what 'I need to see' at various distances and target types. It is causing me to miss a lot of shots out of the holster because ,I think, I'm looking over the rear site . I miss steel and shoot a bunch of deltas for the same reason.
    My times have come down but the misses negate that improvement.
    I have a bunch of work to do
    I agree that three yard targets don't need much of a site picture but without something they can be missed ,Ive done it:D
     

    SSGSAD

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    14   0   0
    Dec 22, 2009
    12,404
    48
    Town of 900 miles
    I am struggling with this concept right now in my shooting.
    I am still trying to figure out what 'I need to see' at various distances and target types. It is causing me to miss a lot of shots out of the holster because ,I think, I'm looking over the rear site . I miss steel and shoot a bunch of deltas for the same reason.
    My times have come down but the misses negate that improvement.
    I have a bunch of work to do
    I agree that three yard targets don't need much of a site picture but without something they can be missed ,Ive done it:D
    Repeat after me, accuracy then speed, accuracy then speed....
    Read my Sig..... nuff said...
     

    riverman67

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jan 16, 2009
    4,105
    48
    Morgan County
    Repeat after me, accuracy then speed, accuracy then speed....
    Read my Sig..... nuff said...

    I repeat it all the time
    the problem is seeing what I need to see, to be accurate enough,fast enough.
    I know that I can get all my hits and have horrible times . I have been at that place for awhile :)
    I am trying to pick up the pace and I am finding that it is difficult to switch between different levels of sight focus for different situations during a course of fire. I'm working on it:D
     

    HICKMAN

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    22   0   0
    Jan 10, 2009
    16,762
    48
    Lawrence Co.
    I am struggling with this concept right now in my shooting.
    I am still trying to figure out what 'I need to see' at various distances and target types. It is causing me to miss a lot of shots out of the holster because ,I think, I'm looking over the rear site . I miss steel and shoot a bunch of deltas for the same reason.
    My times have come down but the misses negate that improvement.
    I have a bunch of work to do
    I agree that three yard targets don't need much of a site picture but without something they can be missed ,Ive done it:D

    You need to read Brian Enos book.
     

    Zoub

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 8, 2008
    5,220
    48
    Northern Edge, WI
    The article sounded like a long drawn out version of "it depends" on the use of sights. Some nice shock value thrown into the title with shots thrown across the bough of both the point shooter and the sight users,because the real truth is both.
    Especially for anyone who has any crosseye dominace issues and is shooting at a moving target. Of course when I overcame it, I just did what came natural for me.

    I reinforced it 20 years ago when I left the sights off one my glocks for a year. I mowed down plates just the same as sights on.

    Answer is both
     
    Top Bottom