Social Security

[.40caltrucker]

We bemoan the same point about this time every year. Then we have a pity party when we realize how many more rentals we could have added to the portfolio...and how much more money those rentals would make us than our "security" payments will ever amount to.

I do it all year long every Friday. There goes another $100 I'll never see again.

Today's Friday.

 

[chraland51]

You all need to keep paying into the system so that when I retire in a couple of years (I will be 60 next month and have paid into the system since I was 15), I can get some more money to supplement my other retirement incomes. Those *********$ in Washington have been robbing me for 45 years and I would like to see a little bit of it come back to me. I would not be mad at the social security recipients. I would be very angry at the elected officials who made the system into what it is today, but kept their pensions separate and protected no matter what. Washington never does anything right.

 

[hornadylnl]

You all need to keep paying into the system so that when I retire in a couple of years (I will be 60 next month and have paid into the system since I was 15), I can get some more money to supplement my other retirement incomes. Those *********$ in Washington have been robbing me for 45 years and I would like to see a little bit of it come back to me. I would not be mad at the social security recipients. I would be very angry at the elected officials who made the system into what it is today, but kept their pensions separate and protected no matter what. Washington never does anything right.

Those recipients are the ones who voted for those politicians that spent their ss "trust fund". Many of those same recipients also demanded the government spending that was their "trust fund".

 

[pathfinder317]

Because if we don't pay into the program, you go to jail...

then shouldn't all congressmen/congesswomen be in jail ?

 

[JoshuaW]

You could just quit your job and go live in a shack on the wilderness. That would get around the whole SS thing I think.

They really should provide an opt-out option though. Of course then everyone under 45 would take it and the system would colapse in a month, so I understand why they don.t

You say that like it is a bad thing?

I try not to think about social security. I am 19. There is no way it will be around by the time I can take advantage of it. I have been working since I was 14, and have been doing 40 hours since I was 16. I have payed thousands into this BS system, and NO ONE expects it be around for those that are retiring in 15 years, much less someone who will be retiring in 30 years. The ONLY way I can avoid paying into the system is to sit on my butt, or pray that the system collapses sooner rather than later. I refuse to sit on my butt, so I guess the only hope is that it dies, and it dies fast.

Heres to a year with lower pay-in rates, hopefully it brings the collapse that much faster.

 

[E'villeGunner]

Please let me OPT out, that 12.4% of my check would do a lot better anywhere other than in our governments hands. I'd fell safer keeping it under the mattress.

I'm not planning on it being around by the time I retire, so we've planned accordingly. I'm retiring at 55 whether they want me to or not.

Most people if given the option, wouldn't put that 12.4% into anything. Other than having the extra income to spend.

I've been hearing about how SS won't be around, for the last 25 yrs. I don't think the gubernunt will allow SS to fail. I know, doing the math shows how it is going to fail, but it hasn't.

It does afford a lot of workers who would otherwise not have something when they reach retirement age to have SOMETHING.

Its not a perfect system by far. But its the system we have and probably stuck with. It's like a dog chasing his tail. There's just no end to it.

 

[dross]

The reason we're paying into SS is because all that money is immediately paid back out in benefits to the folks who are currently collecting SS benefits.

Don't think of SS tax as a separate tax. It doesn't work that way. ALL the money the government collects in taxes - every penny collected, for any reason - all of it gets paid out that same year. Not only do we pay out every single penny, we also borrow a large amount every year, just to pay that year's expenses.

In the past we collected more in SS taxes than we paid out in benefits, so we just used that extra money to run (grow) the government. In 2010, for the first time, we actually took in less in SS taxes than we paid out in benefits.

Contrary to what many people think, there has never been an SS fund. It's all smoke and mirrors. Some will claim that the SS has assets that will allow it to operate for another twenty or thirty years, but that isn't quite true, either. The "assets" they talk about are just a promise to pay back all the money that has already been spent. In other words, one part of the government owes another part the money. So what is called an SS asset is a credit to be paid by the government. It's all smoke and mirrors. We, the taxpayers owe the account the amount that is supposed to be in there.

Since there is no money, any benefits we are promised in the future are a claim against our children and their children. The big mistake we've made is to have less children than our parents and grandparents. Because of this, there aren't enough of our children to rob in order to pay for our benefits. Our parents and grandparents were much more clever theives than we.

As to fault, you can blame the politicians if you want, but they've only done exactly what their constituents wanted. People who collect benefits or who are about to collect benefits vote, and they are the demographic who gives the most money to individual campains. AARP is one of the more powerful lobbies. The sad fact is that our parents and grandparents have ruthlessly voted to bankrupt us in order to receive benefits, and in most cases, more than they paid in to the system. Anyone who has tried to reform the system has been punished mercillessly by these voters.

One other way to think about SS is as a tax on the poor to give to the rich. The richest single segment of our society is people who are of or near the age to receive benefits. While the working poor in our country don't pay any income tax, they do pay SS tax. In effect, the poor are paying the rich. Some guy working at Wal Mart is paying his twelve percent of his ten dollar an hour paycheck so some rich couple in Florida can get their SS check delivered to their beach house.

Just sayin'.

 

[Doug]

You pay into it to pay my benefit, just I paid into it to pay my father's benefit.
Eventually, Social Security benefits will be indexed to net worth. You will have to report all your assets to the government at retirement and they will decide whether or not you get any benefits, and, if so, how much.
All attempts to reform Social Security by allowing workers to keep some of their own money for private investments have been denounced as "risky privatization schemes" designed to "make the fat cats on Wall Street rich."
You had better make your own plans for retirement over and above Social Security. In the future, it will allow a subsistence life style, only.

 

[malern28us]

Or you can complain about everything and not "prep." We all know social security is BS. I am saving my own "social security." I never asked for anything from the government and have no plans to when I "retire" at 55. Only 15 years, 4 months, and 16 days left!

 

[Arm America]

The only difference between The Social Security Administration
and Bernie Madoff is Bernie's in jail.

Both rob Peter to pay Paul and keep billions for administration fees.

 

[dross]

You pay into it to pay my benefit, just I paid into it to pay my father's benefit.
Eventually, Social Security benefits will be indexed to net worth.

Yes, this generation pays for you, and you paid for the previous generation. The problem is the ratios of payer per participant. In 1940, 42 people were paying for every one collecting. By 1970, that number had dropped to 4 people paying for each person collecting. Now it's three. It's projected to be two people paying for one collecting in twenty years.

Indexing SS to net worth is a bandaid. It only fixes part of the problem.

This is nothing more than intergenerational theft, and theft by the rich of the poor.

 

[jedi]

The ONLY way I can avoid paying into the system is to sit on my butt, or pray that the system collapses sooner rather than later. I refuse to sit on my butt, so I guess the only hope is that it dies, and it dies fast.

Heres to a year with lower pay-in rates, hopefully it brings the collapse that much faster.

There is one other option you know. Get paid in CASH only thus neither you or your employee pay the SS tax at all. Off course this also means you have to lie on your 1040 since you will have to not claim that income as well.

Most people if given the option, wouldn't put that 12.4% into anything. Other than having the extra income to spend.

& why is it the .gov's role to ensure that those people too stupid to save for retirement have money in the end?

Contrary to what many people think, there has never been an SS fund. It's all smoke and mirrors. Some will claim that the SS has assets that will allow it to operate for another twenty or thirty years, but that isn't quite true, either. The "assets" they talk about are just a promise to pay back all the money that has already been spent. In other words, one part of the government owes another part the money. So what is called an SS asset is a credit to be paid by the government. It's all smoke and mirrors. We, the taxpayers owe the account the amount that is supposed to be in there.

Yes & No. At the very start back in the 30s there was indeed a separate .gov trust fund in which the SS tax money was put into. It was not touched by the .gov for anything. However somewhere in the 60s/70s (i think) the .gov decided that they would start using that money for other .gov programs and give the SSA an IOU. Thus now at SSA HQ in a single room there is a single yellow 5 drawer filing cabinet with a lock. In the very top drawer there are hundreds of government issued bonds. The .gov has given SSA a US savings bond each time they have "borrowed" from the fund. At this point Dross is correct. All the SS tax money that comes in goes right out that same year to pay benefits + since 2010 the gov has had to borrow (from international source) to pay SS benefits! That has never occurred before.

Think about it this way.

You have a checking account with $100 and a savings account with $100.
You really want to buy a 10/22 an it cost $200.
So you transfer $100 from your savings account and write yourself a check payable to YOU for $100 (this is your IOU to yourself since you took $100 our of your savings).

So now you go down to Dick's Sporting good with you $200 CASH (you used the ATM) and buy the 10/22.

All is good with the world right?
You have a new 10/22 and you have a check for $100 as well!
Now you need to buy some ammo for your new 10/22 so what do you do?
Go cash the check for $100 off course.

Do you see a problem with that?
The check is going to BOUNCE big time!

That is exactly where SSA is at right now!
But instead of the check bouncing the gov has decided to pull out the "plastic" and charge for the ammo. (ie. borrow money).

Well what's going to happen when the VISA bill comes in?

 

[Doug]

Yes, this generation pays for you, and you paid for the previous generation. The problem is the ratios of payer per participant. In 1940, 42 people were paying for every one collecting. By 1970, that number had dropped to 4 people paying for each person collecting. Now it's three. It's projected to be two people paying for one collecting in twenty years.

Indexing SS to net worth is a bandaid. It only fixes part of the problem.

This is nothing more than intergenerational theft, and theft by the rich of the poor.

Because "this generation pays for you, and you paid for the previous generation," Social Security is not and never was a "retirement program." It is and always has been a "spread the wealth" entitlement program; take money from the wage earners and employers and give it to the older people who no longer work full time. By promising a payment to everybody after they reach a certain age, you can force everybody to pay into it.

The government will continue to collect the money because the government will NEVER give up any source of income, but they will eventually take benefits away from "the rich" (those who have provided for their retirement) to be able to continue to provide benefits to the "truly needy" (those who spent every dime they could get and saved nothing).

The money paid in by those who provided for their own retirement is, of course, their "fair share," and, as they are "rich," they should not expect any return on their investment.

Social Security also provides benefits other than retirement benefits, but I am not addressing those here.

 

[ATOMonkey]

In Helvering V. Davis, it was determined that it was not in the scope of the Federal Government to run an Insurance Fund. It was however in the scope to Tax for the "General Welfare" of the nation.

For SS to be legal, all money collected and distributed has to go through the general treasury. There can be no seperate "trust fund."

Now, technically, there is a trust fund, but as stated above it is full of IOUs in the form of bonds and securities. This was legally required in order to fulfill the obligation that SS is a tax, and not an insurance program. All surplus was legally required to be "sold" for bonds and securities, which represent the full faith and credit of the US government.

So, it was doomed from the start based on provisions that allowed it to exist. Kind of ironic really.

 

[clt46910]

& why is it the .gov's role to ensure that those people too stupid to save for retirement have money in the end?


How many have, or people you know, lost about everything because of our failing economy? Saving and retirement funds to try and save our homes? Even then it is not enough at times.

How many you know that had a good retirement plan that now has to go back to work to just get by?

Life is just great when you are young and think you know how your life will turn out. But Real Life will many times throw a surprise at you.

Not all the homeless are there because they are lazy. I know I was there about twenty five years ago.

Being on SS does not always mean they was to stupid to plan. Sometimes life just slaps you in the face and leaves you no other choice other then starving to death.

Life on SS is not great or enjoyable. I know because I am there.

 

[ATOMonkey]

There are ways to protect your principle in the market.

Indexed Annutities, Indexed Life Insurance, Indexed Commodities, Securities, Bonds, Inflation Protected Securities, etc etc etc...

Hell, even a COD or savings account won't ever LOSE money.

Investing is all about managing risk. Some people just don't know when to stop rolling the dice. When I hear about people still 100% invested in common stocks when they're 58 it makes my head spin.

I know a LOT of guys that were riding the "company stock option" train for way too long and ended up screwed when that train came off the tracks.

 

[jedi]

Thus now at SSA HQ in a single room there is a single yellow 5 drawer filing cabinet with a lock. In the very top drawer there are hundreds of government issued bonds. The .gov has given SSA a US savings bond each time they have "borrowed" from the fund.

I was a bit wrong on the bonds.
They are NOT at SSA HQ but at the U.S. Bureau of the Public Debt in Parkersburg, W.Va. They are in a fireproof 4 drawer filing cabiney that is secured with a combo lock. It consists of 8-by-11-inch sheets of paper, fastened inside two notebooks.

Here is one of the articles from back in 2005.
USATODAY.com - 'Trust fund' is locked in filing cabinet

I can find the picture of the cabinet or the "IOUs" but do recall it was in the paper back in 2005.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I was a bit wrong on the bonds.
They are NOT at SSA HQ but at the U.S. Bureau of the Public Debt in Parkersburg, W.Va. They are in a fireproof 4 drawer filing cabiney that is secured with a combo lock. It consists of 8-by-11-inch sheets of paper, fastened inside two notebooks.

Here is one of the articles from back in 2005.
USATODAY.com - 'Trust fund' is locked in filing cabinet

I can find the picture of the cabinet or the "IOUs" but do recall it was in the paper back in 2005.

And the really great thing about that cabinet is they can legally throw it in the trash tomorrow if they felt like it. All it takes is an act of congress to stop SS payments.

 

[jedi]

And the really great thing about that cabinet is they can legally throw it in the trash tomorrow if they felt like it. All it takes is an act of congress to stop SS payments.

They won't throw it in the trash! They will recycle the paper and sell the cabinet as surplus equipment or scape metal. HELLO!!!

 

[ATOMonkey]

Oh yeah, I read that's how the president plans to get us out of debt. Just sell the surplus, that should do it.