self defense from dogs

[MadCity Hoosier]

Background:
I’ve been running and biking for about 20 years in rural areas of the state. When biking, I have successfully used my water bottle to repel dogs (all but one, which bit my shoe). Unless there’s a big hill, I can usually stay out of reach of dogs when on the bike. When running, I’m only wearing/carrying what’s absolutely necessary (shorts, shoes, watch, sweat rag). Dogs have never been much of an issue while running. I have a LTCH and several handguns for SD, but I don't carry while running.

Description of real event:
I was out for a run last week. I live outside of town, so I was running along county roads through farm country. I was about 2 miles from home on a 5-mile loop, when I heard some barking. I look up a hill towards a house and a trailer about 60 yards away and see 4 dogs running down the hill at me. Two of them are of the yap-yap variety (not perceived as a threat), one is about the size/shape of a border collie, and the forth is a big, snarling/growling dog that looks like a boxer mix. I’m past the house and on the opposite side of the road when they reach me. The collie gets to me first and goes for my left foot. I take a swing at him with my right foot and miss, but hit the boxer in the side of the snout as he was coming at me from another angle. The two bigger dogs made several other lunges at me, but my kicking and yelling kept them from making contact with me. This lasted for 10 seconds or so (felt like 5 minutes). The two bigger dogs continue to snarl/growl/bark at me as I slowly walk backwards down the road. The boxer followed me for over 1/4 mile past the spot of the first encounter.

Questions:
Could I have used a firearm to defend myself against one or more of the dogs? I know that Indiana law says I don’t have to retreat, and can use lethal force if I perceive immediate danger to myself or family, but I took this to mean a threat from people. Is there any law about defending against dog attack or any previous experience you can share? Remember, I was doing nothing wrong, had a right to be where I was (far edge of a public roadway), and I was scared for my safety (all I could think about was making it home to see my two little kids again).

Thanks for taking the time to read the long post. This encounter really shook me up, and forced me to reconsider things. I’m just looking for some sound advice or experiences to help me out.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Dude, you were attacked by a PACK of dogs, lethal force is not only justified, but IMO mandatory.

If you come onto private property you may have less justification, though you still have the legal right to protect yourself from attack as long as you were commiting no crime (this mainly would apply to the civil action afterwards), but if you are in a public roadway you have no duty or obligation to retreat. This is why I have both a spray bottle of bleach, and a gun when I ride my bike. It's also the primary reason I carry when I am in my woods working, I've had packs of dogs menace me before while I was out there.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I know that not many folks want to carry "extra" stuff when either biking or running...

But you can get a "tire knocker" from a truck stop for $10 or so. Burdensome to carry while running, yes.

Can also look at getting dog repellent pepper spray. Many folks on here have said that it works just fine.

-J-

 

[Bflo]

I’ve been attacked by two large German Sheppards while walking my dogs. I was able to defend myself by kicking them repeatedly in the head. I believe you would be justified in using a firearm in defending yourself, but I think you would likely by subject to civil action-regardless of the plaintiff’s likelihood of success. I understand not wanting to take a lot with you while running or biking, but I would suggest using pepper spray before your gun. Bring both, but use the pepper spray first and if unsuccessful blast them!
Also, after I was attacked I called animal control and filed a report. They took a description of the dogs. My understanding is that if there are other events in the future with these dogs it will be more likely that they will be put down for being dangerous.

 

[j706]

You could have morally and legally shot them based on what you described. I would have. Indiana has a leash law. It is illegal to let a dog run at large. I understand many people do anyway. I do myself. I live in the country and mine is trained and stays on my property by an invisible fence. I will not let any dog chew on me.

I was once dispatched on a run to a home. The homeowner is the one that called me so they knew I was coming. Once I arrived I parked at the end of a long drive way and started walking towards the garage where I was too meet the home owner. I was half way between the garage and my car when a large bulldog type mutt started towards me. I could tell he was meaning business. Once he got to me I fed him my left boot that he promptly bit into. That was the last bite he ever took. One shot from a Glock 22 with 155 grn. gold dots right behind the head dropped him like a rock. I considered tasing the thing but I was too close. I hate smoking someones dog like that but I will not be dog meat. The homeowner was all pissy and threatened to sue. That was well over 8 years ago and I haven't heard anything from him. I was cleared by the firearms review panel in one ten minute session. The homeowner also replaced my ($250.00) Danner boots that had a few puncture's in them. I have had to deal with aggressive dogs many times. Usually a good kick does the trick but not always. Aggravating.

 

[christman]

You could have morally and legally shot them based on what you described. I would have. Indiana has a leash law. It is illegal to let a dog run at large. I understand many people do anyway. I do myself. I live in the country and mine is trained and stays on my property by an invisible fence. I will not let any dog chew on me.

I was once dispatched on a run to a home. The homeowner is the one that called me so they knew I was coming. Once I arrived I parked at the end of a long drive way and started walking towards the garage where I was too meet the home owner. I was half way between the garage and my car when a large bulldog type mutt started towards me. I could tell he was meaning business. Once he got to me I fed him my left boot that he promptly bit into. That was the last bite he ever took. One shot from a Glock 22 with 155 grn. gold dots right behind the head dropped him like a rock. I considered tasing the thing but I was too close. I hate smoking someones dog like that but I will not be dog meat. The homeowner was all pissy and threatened to sue. That was well over 8 years ago and I haven't heard anything from him. I was cleared by the firearms review panel in one ten minute session. The homeowner also replaced my ($250.00) Danner boots that had a few puncture's in them. I have had to deal with aggressive dogs many times. Usually a good kick does the trick but not always. Aggravating.

Heard that.

 

[dross]

People who don't manage their dogs deserve to have them shot. I remember as a kid a dog who used to attack me on my way to school. I carried a stick and hit him. The owner saw me and told me her dog didn't bite, so I must have provoked him.

People turn into idiots with their dogs. We have some near us that bark constantly. I don't have a dog, why must I be annoyed by people who do. Some folks take the time to teach them not to bark at everything, or they keep them inside unless supervised. Others treat them like goldfish, put them in a yard and give them food.

 

[whatscooking]

It works

I brought home one weekend what some of the UPS drivers have in there trucks that looks like a garage door opener that puts out a very high pitch noise that you cannot hear and tried it out while the wife and i were out for a walk with our dogs and of course that draws other dogs to you even more ready to fight and when i pointed it at the dogs comming at us that were barking and growling and i pushed the button they acted like i just unloaded a shotgun at them,great fun by the way,no mess no fuss.

 

[MinuteMan47]

Just like j706 said, Indiana has a leash law. If the owner doesn't want their dogs shot, then they better keep them on their own property. I paid $5K to fence in my yard because my neighbor threatened to shoot my dog. Now the asshat drives a motorcycle up and down MY fence and antagonizes him. He even had the nerve to call animal control on me because of my "agressive dog" barking at his motorcycle. Laughable. My security camera will prove he is getting the dog going, and next time he will probably get tagged for filing a false police report.

Oh, he is in his mid 40s, doesn't work, and is on disability. How can a person on disability ride a "shriner" bike around his 3 acre yard for hours and hours?? Talk about abusing the system...

Anyway, sorry for getting off subject.....back to the OP. If the dogs aren't on their owner's property and you feel threatened then DEFEND YOURSELF.

 

[Orsetto Lavatore]

Dogs can be a serious problem.

Under Indiana law the individual is:
* Legally required to report any dog suspected of disease
* Liable for any damages to property inflicted by their dog
* Legally allowed to KILL any dog found attacking livestock
* Liable for ALL damages that result from the bite of an unsecured dog
* In violation of law for ANY freely roaming dog
* Subject to prosecution for the abandonment of ANY dog.

If an unfamiliar dog is running around YOUR property untended and making a nuisance, the owner has very few rights.

 

[jd4320t]

Halt works...I've seen it in action. You could hook it on your shorts, bike or whatever.

 

[lovemywoods]

My wife and I regularly take walks along rural roads. We do encounter dogs occasionally. I carry a small pepper spray. We each carry a 24" long round hickory stick with a small lanyard. The stick is about the size of a broom handle. It's light and easy to carry.

The stick is the first line of defense. It helps keep the dog at bay and can deliver a smack across the nose. If the animal continues to be aggressive, the spray is next.

 

[runandgun44]

When I run I carry a NAA .22 revolver. NAA makes a clip type holster that attaches securely and doesn't move around. It's very light and I figure it's better than nothing.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

I am an animal lover and dog person at heart, however let us keep in mind, that we are people, human being, and therefore above animals in the chain of life. As much as I love animals and realize that pets truly are part of the family, if a dog is jeopardizing your safety, shoot it! End of story!

 

[midget]

I would have a hard time shooting any dog, but if my life is on the line, I would take it out without a second thought...

That being said, I have a dog that sounds incredibly aggressive to new people, but she is just a big baby and will lay down as soon as you walk next to her... I know this and know that I cannot just let her walk around without a leash because she would be perceived as a threat...

 

[Serial Crusher]

People turn into idiots with their dogs.

I think it's more like idiots turn their dogs into idiots You can tell a lot about a person by their dog, as an extreme example, think of the footage of Hitler's GSDs pissing themselves and cowering at his sight. You can also tell about their children from their dog, as their attentiveness and the general quality of care will be similar. Most peoples' dogs are just like they are, annoying, but harmless

As far as the dogs in the OP, I would have probably dosed all of them the second they made physical contact. I doubt you were the first person to walk down that road, so the owners are likely willfully negligent. What would happen if a family, or just a child were walking or riding this road?

 

[MadCity Hoosier]

So I found this:


IC 35-46-3-12
Torture or mutilation of a vertebrate animal; killing a domestic animal
Sec. 12. (a) This section does not apply to a person who euthanizes an injured, a sick, a homeless, or an unwanted domestic animal if:
(1) the person is employed by a humane society, an animal control agency, or a governmental entity operating an animal shelter or other animal impounding facility; and
(2) the person euthanizes the domestic animal in accordance with guidelines adopted by the humane society, animal control agency, or governmental entity operating the animal shelter or other animal impounding facility.
(b) A person who knowingly or intentionally beats a vertebrate animal commits cruelty to an animal, a Class A misdemeanor. However, the offense is a Class D felony if:
(1) the person has a previous, unrelated conviction under this section; or
(2) the person committed the offense with the intent to threaten, intimidate, coerce, harass, or terrorize a family or household member.
(c) A person who knowingly or intentionally tortures or mutilates a vertebrate animal commits torturing or mutilating a vertebrate animal, a Class D felony.
(d) As used in this subsection, "domestic animal" means an animal that is not wild. The term is limited to:
(1) cattle, calves, horses, mules, swine, sheep, goats, dogs, cats, poultry, ostriches, rhea, and emus; and
(2) an animal of the bovine, equine, ovine, caprine, porcine, canine, feline, camelid, cervidae, or bison species.
A person who knowingly or intentionally kills a domestic animal without the consent of the owner of the domestic animal commits killing a domestic animal, a Class D felony.
(e) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section that the accused person:
(1) reasonably believes the conduct was necessary to:
(A) prevent injury to the accused person or another person;
(B) protect the property of the accused person from destruction or substantial damage; or
(C) prevent a seriously injured vertebrate animal from prolonged suffering; or (2) engaged in a reasonable and recognized act of training, handling, or disciplining the vertebrate animal.


I highlighted the part pertaining to my original question. Does this mean that if I shoot a dog in SD that I will be charged, and have to defend myself in court? Or does this mean that I will not be charged if the police/prosecutor believe that (e)(1)(A) applies? Too much legalleeze for me to understand.

Also, if I at shoot and wound the dog, or use pepper spray, then I did not kill it as mentioned in the code above. Does this mean that I can be prosecuted for animal cruelty simply because I only injured the animal while defending myself? (the code exempts me for "killing" in SD only)

 

[Serial Crusher]

What I've been wondering for a while since I read this code is: is it now illegal to shoot your own dog in order to put it down? It makes pretty clear exemptions for people who work as vets etc. but e1C mentions "prolonged suffering."

 

[Timjoebillybob]

What I've been wondering for a while since I read this code is: is it now illegal to shoot your own dog in order to put it down? It makes pretty clear exemptions for people who work as vets etc. but e1C mentions "prolonged suffering."

See the bolded part. If it's your dog it is legal. As long as you do it humanely. Now would an leo/prosecutor/judge/jury feel that it was humane to put it down with a bullet to the head?

(2) an animal of the bovine, equine, ovine, caprine, porcine, canine, feline, camelid, cervidae, or bison species.
A person who knowingly or intentionally kills a domestic animal without the consent of the owner of the domestic animal commits killing a domestic animal, a Class D felony.

 

[Walter Zoomie]

I got nuthin.'