Rural Location= Safety, not always, what happened at my place

[dr632]

Yikes Brother ... I'm no expert, but I wouldn't telegraph to anyone I have a firearm and I certainly wouldn't confront them or walk their way with an empty firearm.

Seems like one should keep the element of surprise on their side of a situation like this.

Be careful. They'll be back or their friends. Be prepared. You and your family's life is worth more than any stuff you may have.

 

[ocsdor]

 

[E5RANGER375]

Yikes Brother ... I'm no expert, but I wouldn't telegraph to anyone I have a firearm and I certainly wouldn't confront them or walk their way with an empty firearm.

Seems like one should keep the element of surprise on their side of a situation like this.

Be careful. They'll be back or their friends. Be prepared. You and your family's life is worth more than any stuff you may have.

so i can mark you down as a non participant in OC ????

 

[patton487]

Yikes Brother ... I'm no expert, but I wouldn't telegraph to anyone I have a firearm and I certainly wouldn't confront them or walk their way with an empty firearm.

Seems like one should keep the element of surprise on their side of a situation like this.

Be careful. They'll be back or their friends. Be prepared. You and your family's life is worth more than any stuff you may have.

Something just doesn't sound right to me about your comments. It's seems to suggest that I should let these people (if they do come back) take what they want so I can be safe and not have to confront them. That is just not in my DNA.

Also, I 100% believe that they will never come back. Why? because they did see my weapon. (Attention, Attention, the following is a "cover my a** statement.I did not point or brandish at anyone) But that put them on notice that if they want my stuff, they will have to fight to get it.

I believe that is a huge deterrent. Even if it was an unloaded weapon (ie, an expensive club! Thanks Coach)

 

[dr632]

My personal choice is to be low-profile. I'll conceal to avoid others seeing that I have a weapon. I'm not that confident in my skills, yet, and I personally would like to avoid drawing attention to myself when I don't know someone is watching.

I understand how showing your pistol and having a presentation of confidence and authority is a deterrent.

Please don't interpret my comment that I do not support other's choice of open carry. In fact, I wonder how low crime statistics would spike down if we passed a law that required EVERY citizen, in good standing, to carry a pistol or face a fine.

If you are keeping a tally, please mark me down as a SUPPORTER of open carry. And I chose to conceal until I'm more competent and confident.

 

[patton487]

My personal choice is to be low-profile. I'll conceal to avoid others seeing that I have a weapon. I'm not that confident in my skills, yet, and I personally would like to avoid drawing attention to myself when I don't know someone is watching.

I understand how showing your pistol and having a presentation of confidence and authority is a deterrent.

Please don't interpret my comment that I do not support other's choice of open carry. In fact, I wonder how low crime statistics would spike down if we passed a law that required EVERY citizen, in good standing, to carry a pistol or face a fine.

If you are keeping a tally, please mark me down as a SUPPORTER of open carry. And I chose to conceal until I'm more competent and confident.

You sound like a very reasonable person. And what's more, I agree with you 100% about concealed carry.

When I am out in public I conceal carry. I would never, ever present my side arm unless it was a life threatening situation.

That being said, if you read what happened. I was:
1. on my own property
2. over 1/4 mile from the nearest road sitting on my front porch
3. the pistol was already out in the open and in my hand because I was cleaning it
4. I didn't think anything about carrying it with me anymore than if I had been digging a ditch and carried a shovel over with me.

Although the shovel would have probably been more use than the unloaded pistol (stupid, stupid, stupid)

Not dogging you at all, just clearing up a couple of points I think you misunderstood. Not a thing wrong with concealed carry. That's the way I choose to go also when out in public.

 

[4sarge]

Didn't get the plate, they pulled out too fast. I didn't make an official report either, maybe I should have. I did call a few neighbors and told them to keep an eye out.

I have a gate at the front of the drive. Its always open though. I'm thinking I might need to start keeping it closed, its a pain in the a** though getting in and out of the vehicle all the time....

Lock the Gate and always keep a reload for whatever you are carrying back to the house

How do you know they were Mexicans?

Racial Profiling

Whatever they were doing they didn't need to be doing on your property!

My opinion:

I don't think you don't need to apologize because you didn't do anything wrong. You simply described the people you observed (who you believed were planning to rob you) to the best of your ability.

It's absurd to infer some "racist" motive in what you wrote, yet it's going to happen. Sure, they could have been Guatemalan, but in Indiana it's a virtual certainty they were from Mexico originally or their parents were. When you're describing people for a good reason (like you had in this story), those are details that matter, especially in cases where an actual crime is committed.

There was nothing in what you wrote that stated or implied that the apparent ethnicity of the occupants of that vehicle had anything to do with their propensity or lack thereof for wrongdoing. You simply told us what you observed, which is the right thing to do.

Some who will always infer some "racism" may have preferred that you used the term "Hispanic" or "Latin," which might make sense in Miami or Los Angeles or New York or Chicago where there are a variety of people from central and south America and the Caribbean. In Indiana, though, the percentage of "Latin" people from those areas is dwarfed but the numbers from Mexico and to a significantly lesser extent Guatemala.

Furthermore, when describing people, "Latino" or "Hispanic" is about as useful as "Asian." I am to the point where I laugh when I hear someone describing someone else as "Asian," because it could mean virtually anything. The terms may be more politically correct, but they're also too broad to be meaningful in the context of describing an individual.

Good Post

Ignore the crazies , I also am located in a similar area. Lock the GATE. (I need to follow my own advice) When I 1st moved to my isolated spot, I locked the gate to our drive everyday and then laziness took over and I stopped. Most days, I never leave but had workman coming every day for remodeling to necessitate opening the gate. So from now on, unless I'm expecting company or a UPS delivery the gate will remain locked. 1/2 mile drive and no place to turn around until you are in the target zone

 

[dr632]

You were there, not me, that makes me ignorant of all the things you saw and processed. It is/was inappropriate for me to attempt to comment on these facts.

It sounds like you have it sorted out in the chance something like this happens in the future.

It is good this situation resolved as you've described.



Here's a more thoughtful response to your post. I assume you wanted ideas, not critiques of what you did in your situation. I should NOT have posted the original comments, my apologies.


If it helps, my protocol at the end of my rural, 2500' drive.

- I have installed gates and MURS systems along the road to give myself a bit more time to prepare, albeit only 3-4 minutes. Normally folks turn around as soon as they see the house at about 200 feet away. Those that are stupid enough to come within 50-75' of the house will normally roll their window down and apologize as they turn around and leave.

- The gate is open, but clearly tells someone at the road turnoff this is private place and stay out unless invited. The gate can be locked if things degrade and added security level is needed. I haven't convinced my self to spend thousands of $'s on remote activated, motorized gates and intercom. I'm talking basic railroad ties for post, Rural King farm stock gates, and heavy chain and master padlocks to enable one to restrict access to the property.

- When FTF verbal contact is required, I make sure I have cover opportunities (corner of our log home, near one of our SUV's, etc.). If I see some form of escalation from the visitors or anything I don't like, e.g., quickly exiting persons from the vehicle or a weapon raised/presented, or a second vehicle coming up the drive, etc. taking one step or something to cover is a good position to stand while talking.

- I enter the situation fully prepared to win as things escalate. I try to minimize any provocation on my part. I have my pistol and extra mags on me or sitting next to me here at the house at all times. The MURS system gives me about 3-4 minutes to prepare for anyone coming in/up our drive. The 12 is ready to rumble and one lives just inside each of our doors with slugs and 00 with side saddle. I'm seldom without my cell phone (which has a camera to take pictures of the individual, vehicle - but don't think I could get the tags with it). Unless they pull out a shoulder mounted rocket, APG, or mini gun - they will lose. I'm re-reading IN THE GRAVEST EXTREME, Massad F. Ayoob and SURVIVING THE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE, Fernando Ferfal Aguirre and ONE NATION UNDER SURVEILLANCE, Boston T. Party to continue refinement to my property security and protocols to deal with visitors and threats. One other quick read, Jeff Coopers PRINCIPLES OF PERSONAL DEFENSE. It has been suggested to me to consider every/any bullet leaving my control has an attorney attached to it and to make sure I understand our Indiana and local statutes around the use of deadly force, make sure I understand what to do do after a confrontation, etc., etc. Things get very complex quickly and one needs to be prepared beforehand for these types of scenarios.

- I have a few other countermeasures if the gang-bangers approach on foot from the other two likely ways into my residence.

- Two dogs start barking now as soon as they hear the MURS chimes and they alert us of anyone approaching on foot.

- My primary motive is to protect my family and I WILL win and prevail - they can't be replaced or repaired easily. My actions are all around maintaining their safety and security.


Again, I hope this is a more helpful set of comments and resources.

Thanks for assuming good intent on my part and giving me a chance to follow up.

 

[SSGSAD]

Can I just hire you to sit around my place?

I don't know where West Baden, is, but I"ll take the job !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jeremy]

Also, I 100% believe that they will never come back. Why? because they did see my weapon. (Attention, Attention, the following is a "cover my a** statement.I did not point or brandish at anyone) But that put them on notice that if they want my stuff, they will have to fight to get it.

Uhhh...
Indiana does not have a Brandishing Law or charge that I am aware of...
Just so you know.

 

[MarkR]

I don't know where West Baden, is, but I"ll take the job !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

West Baden, right next to French Lick, near Lake Patoka!

 

[Lex Concord]

Uhhh...
Indiana does not have a Brandishing Law or charge that I am aware of...
Just so you know.

Here's the closest thing...

IC 35-47-4-3
Pointing firearm at another person
Sec. 3. (a) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting within the scope of the law enforcement officer's official duties or to a person who is justified in using reasonable force against another person under:
(1) IC 35-41-3-2; or
(2) IC 35-41-3-3.
(b) A person who knowingly or intentionally points a firearm at another person commits a Class D felony. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the firearm was not loaded.
As added by P.L.296-1995, SEC.2.

 

[HandK]

Always Always believe what you see!! its the tendency to think the best of people or situations that will put you on the downward side of reaction time!! be prepared for the worst!! and hope for the best!! not the other way around!!

 

[PwrCruz]

Glad to hear every thing worked out for the OP in the end. I would recommend a good dog or two to help with security and company.
I would also like to pass on a little advise that was given to me by an old friend "Never run out of ammo, ciggaretts or luck at the same time, But Never Ever Run out of Ammo. Cause if you have AMMO you can always get more ciggaretts and make your own Luck.

 

[Keith_Indy]

I skipped to the end...

Neighbors work to keep each other safe. Anyone want to move in around here?

This does bring up the point that we need to network more around here. We've got a dog that gives us pretty good warning, most of the time. We need to get a driveway alarm.

I should get mags, and speed strips near our entrances.

Long term I would like cameras, and more secure doors.

 

[Keith_Indy]

Always Always believe what you see!! its the tendency to think the best of people or situations that will put you on the downward side of reaction time!! be prepared for the worst!! and hope for the best!! not the other way around!!

Same thing with our other animal instincts. To many people don't want to acknowledge a threat because they don't want to be seen as politically incorrect. If things seem hinkey they probably are.

 

[DanO]

Keith Indy - EXACTLY! Read Gavin DeBecker's book "The Gift of Fear"
to fine-tune those instincts.

 

[teknickle]

they probly cant even read mexicant either. best just to put up a sign that has a picture of a sombrerro with a bullet hole in it. or a picture of the mexicant flag being set on fire by a guy holding a flame thrower

I am laughing so hard I have tears in my eyes.

And to the original OP, you were about to be robbed.
I posted a similar story that happened back in 2008 (when in a period of 2 months, 6 different families from our church were robbed).

I got a frantic call on my cell from our neighbor (back through their acreage, then 38 acres of woods..then my house). I was on other side of town and tried to hurry over there.

The kids were home alone (for not even 15 minutes).
Some car pulls up the drive (gate was left open) and parks about 50' from house. A brown lady that didn't speak Engrish goes up and knocks on door.
Kids hide..even though they know where the good firepower is at.
Lady rings door bell incessantly. They sneak out back and head to barn.
Then goes out and lays on her horn on the car, keeping eyes on house.
Kids stay still and the lady leaves.

Mom comes home and pulls in garage (overhead door shut). Kids come back and tell her what happened. At that time a large white SUV pulls up in front of their property. Dark brown man pulls out a set of binoculars and starts panning vision all over house.
(everyone inhouse is seeing this through the laundry window in the mudroom..where kids met mom to tell her as she justwalked in the door).
That's when I get a call.
She also calls her brother at the family owned farm across the street (but house is on other side of 130 acres).

Brown Bad guy lines vision up with mud room window and then throws optics down and floors it.
Farm truck hauling butt (which they don't see) just about to catch them.
They get away as farm truck pukes out on the county road.

No matter how you slice it, only an idiot would not recognize a robbery there.

Since then, all of us are more aware of that grave reality.

It really is your duty to stop these events before they move onto another target. Next victims might have girls or noisy dogs that bad guys see get in the way.

 

[JBusch8899]

Uhhh...
Indiana does not have a Brandishing Law or charge that I am aware of...
Just so you know.

IANAL, but....

Gaddis v. State. 680 N.E.2d at 861.

Gaddis involved an encounter between two motorists on I-465 in Indianapolis during rush hour. Gaddis and the other motorist, each apparently troubled by the other’s driving, pulled beside one another, exchanged hand gestures, and spoke to each other through closed windows.

Gaddis then “removed his handgun from the glove box, displayed it by the window at a 45-degree angle, and placed it near the console.” Gaddis was subsequently convicted of intimidation.

On review, the Court of Appeals vacated the conviction, holding “the mere display of a handgun does not express an intention to unlawfully injure a person or his property.”

 

[Ashkelon]

.

On review, the Court of Appeals vacated the conviction, holding “the mere display of a handgun does not express an intention to unlawfully injure a person or his property.”[/quote]

Which is why in almost every police report now you see the alleged victim claiming defendant pointed the firearm. The suggestion by the ao "are you sure he didn't point it in your direction?" Invariably leads to a misdemeanor arrest as just about any moron can take the bait on that one. Gets enough for a warrant.