Robbery in Franklin today...

[NetPIMP]

via local radio station post on Facebook:

The Henderson Drug Store in downtown Franklin was robbed at gunpoint this morning. According to Franklin Chief of Police Tim O’Sullivan, at approximately 10:30 this morning, two suspects entered the Henderson Drug Store, drew their weapons, and demanded an undisclosed amount of prescription medication. The two suspects are described as one being a white male, wearing blue jeans and a black hoodie with white lettering. The other suspect is a black male, medium build, wearing blue jeans, a grey shirt, wearing a stocking cap with dreads.

The suspects fled north while being pursued by an employee of Henderson Drug who fired three rounds from his own personal hand gun in an attempt to stop the suspects.

The two men then jumped into a grey or silver Chevy van, and proceeded North on Water Street.

The Johnson County Sherriff’s Department, the Franklin Police Department, the Indiana State Police, and other local agencies are investigating.

The attempted robbery prompted Schools around Franklin to go on lockdown for two hours from 10am to 12 noon.

Sounds like the lockdowns have been lifted at this point...

So, clearly this is light on some details, but my question is this:

If the robbers were FLEEING (as the post seems to indicate, i.e. "being pursued" ... "attempting to stop"), was the employee ok to fire??

I was under the impression you shouldn't give chase as that may transition you from victim to aggressor... the thought process being that when the initial aggressor turns and runs, the iminent threat that justifies firing evaporates until such time they turn back around...

maybe I'm over-thinking it... I don't necessarily want to Monday-morning quarterback the store employee, b/c clearly I admire his courage.

Thoughts?

 

[Pinchaser]

If the robbers were FLEEING (as the post seems to indicate, i.e. "being pursued" ... "attempting to stop"), was the employee ok to fire??

No, definitely not. Once the suspects left the store, he screwed up royally by going after them and firing his weapon. Avoiding prison time should be his #1 goal right now. Ever carrying a weapon again? Forget about it.

 

[level0]

No justification for deadly force if they are fleeing. This guy could be in some hot water himself.

 

[88GT]

So, clearly this is light on some details, but my question is this:

If the robbers were FLEEING (as the post seems to indicate, i.e. "being pursued" ... "attempting to stop"), was the employee ok to fire??

I was under the impression you shouldn't give chase as that may transition you from victim to aggressor... the thought process being that when the initial aggressor turns and runs, the iminent threat that justifies firing evaporates until such time they turn back around...

maybe I'm over-thinking it... I don't necessarily want to Monday-morning quarterback the store employee, b/c clearly I admire his courage.

Thoughts?

Legally, yes. Morally, they should be able to to give chase until a satisfactory outcome is achieved.

 

[jwh20]

Of course there is the possibility of incorrect reporting at this point. But no, chasing someone and firing at them will be very difficult to claim was justified shooting.

 

[newdumdum9825]

for those of you wondering im safe! but sadly my van has a few holes in it

anyone know a great under the table body shop?


all jokes aside

in way it was a ballsy and stupid move to risk your life to recover some pills

 

[possum_128]

Besides all of the above in which I agree he was wrong in giving chase and in firing his weapon but he did not take into account for where those rounds went when he fired into the so called ground. My guess it was pavement he fired at which is careless in my mind.

Methinks he needs more training, if he don't end up in jail for being stupid.

 

[NetPIMP]

That's kinda what I thought - but again, I'm trying to keep open minded since all the facts are definitely NOT in...

So, to expand on the thinking about this... We're justified in responding with deadly force in the face of an imminent threat to ourselves or our property, but what about of those "around" us? So the question would be: can he make the argument that he gave chase in defense of anyone who would be in the immediate path of the assailants as they fled the scene? It seems clear that in the immediate time-frame of the incident, their mere presence remains a threat to anyone they may encounter (given what they've just done, and that they did it by threat of deadly force) - so given that idea/concept, is that a valid argument?

Not trying to stir up a fight - or to necessarily disagree with the assessments offered so far... just spitballing and speculating ... cuz that's what we do here on the Internetz!!

 

[Pinchaser]

That's kinda what I thought - but again, I'm trying to keep open minded since all the facts are definitely NOT in...

So, to expand on the thinking about this... We're justified in responding with deadly force in the face of an imminent threat to ourselves or our property, but what about of those "around" us? So the question would be: can he make the argument that he gave chase in defense of anyone who would be in the immediate path of the assailants as they fled the scene? It seems clear that in the immediate time-frame of the incident, their mere presence remains a threat to anyone they may encounter (given what they've just done, and that they did it by threat of deadly force) - so given that idea/concept, is that a valid argument?

Not trying to stir up a fight - or to necessarily disagree with the assessments offered so far... just spitballing and speculating ... cuz that's what we do here on the Internetz!!

No. Anyone with that poor of an understanding of their responsibilities when carrying a gun should not be carrying one.

 

[richardraw316]

I kind of agree with the chase and firing of a weapon. I disagree with missing. In situations such as this we discount what tomorrow may bring. These robbers could easily try and rob somebody tomorrow and the out come of that encounter could cost an innocent person their lives. By firing on the suspects he maybe saving someones life tomorrow. However I do not recommend In this situation to shoot to kill. Just tell the cops go to the local hospital and look for two guys with bullet wonder in their butt cheeks. They should be easy to spot. They will be the ones sitting on the inflatable doughnut.
Just my opinion I have been wrong before.

 

[TriggerWork]

I don't have the ISC by memory, but isn't there a statement about defending yourself or others during the commission of a felony? I'm no lawyer but were they not still in the commission of the felony and anybody in there vicinity could be viewed as in danger since they were known by the person of having already threatened life?

Here it is (ISC 35-41-3):
However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

 

[indytechnerd]

Plus, the report doesn't say if the badguys were engaging the employee while running away. Maybe he was just chasing when one of them turned and drew down on him. Let's not boil the guy too soon.

 

[norman428]

I don't have the ISC by memory, but isn't there a statement about defending yourself or others during the commission of a felony? I'm no lawyer but weren't they still in the commission of the felony and anybody in there vicinity could be viewed as in danger since they were known by the person of having already threatened life?

Here it is (ISC 35-41-3):
However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

The felony part is robbing the place in the first place, once they exit he building the felony has been committed, and is no longer occurring. If someone breaks into your house to steal someone, sees you and leaves, you can't kill them in the street out front unless they are STILL an active threat, running away is not considered a threat.

 

[blamecharles]

Maybe he fired then they fled and he chased afterwords. The order it occurred isnt very well established in the story.

 

[rjc2rjc]

I dont know if anyone knows where henderson drugs is located in franklin. I have been there to get my sons medication. It is not a good location to pop off 3 rounds if you are not being shot at. it is in the heart of downtown franklin. The street, State road 44 is about 10 feet from there front door. they sit on the corner with a stop light caddy corner from there court house. If the guy's life wasnt in jeperdy. My guess he is screwed.

But I wasnt there. So I dont know.