Rob Pincus (ICE) and James Yeager (Tactical Response) on Open Carry

[paddling_man]

Now that Buck Yeager has everyone convinced...
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUnBXLaWHrg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUnBXLaWHrg[/ame]




[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbqiy1MTi3Q&feature=plcp"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbqiy1MTi3Q&feature=plcp[/ame]

 

[protias]

Now that Buck Yeager has everyone convinced...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUnBXLaWHrg

Works great if you don't have to use that left arm to do damage to the attacker so you can grab your firearm...

 

[jeremy]

Now that Buck Yeager has everyone convinced...

Thanks....

 

[The Spud]

Who are Rob and James?

Rob and James do not exist at this dojo.

 

[elliotle]

Post proof or retract..

Directly from the FBI's latest published data (2010) of the 38 Law Enforcement officers killed by handguns that year, 7 were killed by their own firearms (18.4%).

 

[the1kidd03]

Directly from the FBI's latest published data (2010) of the 38 Law Enforcement officers killed by handguns that year, 7 were killed by their own firearms (18.4%).

Again, that's "18.4%" OF those 38 officers. That is LESS THAN 1% of all officers in the country.

 

[ATM]

The differences of LEO gun retention, with their vastly different duties regarding criminals, is covered fairly well here: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...lf_defense/71996-the_open_carry_argument.html

This is not really a comparison of apples to apples considering most of us don't attempt to take criminals into custody on a routine basis.

 

[elliotle]

The data only covers law enforcement officers and not all deaths among open carriers, so it was merely a datapoint concerning one facet of the OC community. To my knowledge there is no data regarding death amongst CCers who lost retention of their firearm, or it would be included for fairness.

In any case, I like OC in situations where I am presumed to be armed (at my home, at the range, at family's home) and CC in situations where I can get away with it not being presumed.

I'm just glad I live in Indiana where we can fight about how we carry, and not Illinois where you have to bribe your local politicians to carry a Derringer.

 

[Roadie]

Now that Buck Yeager has everyone convinced...





http://youtu.be/gbqiy1MTi3Q

From facebook:

James Yeager James - I practice concealed unless I am in a tactical rig. When I train I do as the instructor wishes.

 

[JetGirl]

ditto

 

[octalman]

State licensed instructor stated numerous times Utah permit ONLY allows CC in public.
He stated you can open carry on your property.

When mine arrives will let you all know what it says.

 

[protias]

State licensed instructor stated numerous times Utah permit ONLY allows CC in public.
He stated you can open carry on your property.

When mine arrives will let you all know what it says.

I have mine right in front me. It is a Concealed Firearm Permit. Nothing on it says OC or CC. I'd rather read the law than what an instructor says.

http://handgunlaw.us/states/utah.pdf

OpenCarry.org - State Information For Utah

Trust, but verify.

It would be like saying in IN LTCH or WI CCL, an instructor says you MUST conceal when the law does not say that.

 

[ATM]

State licensed instructor stated numerous times Utah permit ONLY allows CC in public...

He was wrong.

In Utah, unloaded OC is legal without any permit.

With a permit, loaded OC and/or CC become options (as well as carry upon school property for resident licensees).

http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/shared/Utah_Gun_Law.pdf

It matters little what the instructor or the permit actually says, Utah code is what will be enforced.

 

[Hayseed_40]

I have mine right in front me. It is a Concealed Firearm Permit. Nothing on it says OC or CC. I'd rather read the law than what an instructor says.

http://handgunlaw.us/states/utah.pdf

OpenCarry.org - State Information For Utah

Trust, but verify.

It would be like saying in IN LTCH or WI CCL, an instructor says you MUST conceal when the law does not say that.

Does it actually say "Concealed Firearm Permit" on it?

 

[protias]

Does it actually say "Concealed Firearm Permit" on it?

Yes, and? What does UT law say?

 

[Hayseed_40]

Yes, and? What does UT law say?

Just asking a question since I do not have one - ok with you? Look in above posts if you need to see what Utah law states - I am not giving you all the answers.

 

[octalman]

Just checked with the instructor. Said he takes the conservative approach regarding OC vs CC as only one of many topics covered in the limited class time available. Feels that the entirety of the Utah law on the books is confusing regarding non-residents OC. Too much wiggle room for prosecutors/lawyers to come up with different interpretation.

Apologized for leaving the impression Utah is CC only.

Likely more my fault for mis-understanding his point during the OC vs CC discussion.

 

[Sailor]

There are many more sheep than sheep dogs (us), and the sheep vote too. Scare the sheep and herd will act en-mass.

I personally have better luck changing minds with rational conversation vs demonstration. Once the sheep get emotional, it does not matter what you say, they will never hear you. Demonstration tends to get them all emotional.

 

[protias]

Just asking a question since I do not have one - ok with you? Look in above posts if you need to see what Utah law states - I am not giving you all the answers.

I answered that several posts ago. Here it is again:

I have mine right in front me. It is a Concealed Firearm Permit. Nothing on it says OC or CC. I'd rather read the law than what an instructor says.

http://handgunlaw.us/states/utah.pdf

OpenCarry.org - State Information For Utah

Trust, but verify.

It would be like saying in IN LTCH or WI CCL, an instructor says you MUST conceal when the law does not say that.

 

[rhino]

I'm surprised that no one else has suggested a Solution to All of This:

Carry openly and concealed. At the same time.