Rob Pincus (ICE) and James Yeager (Tactical Response) on Open Carry

[KG1]

I understand. I was merely trying to show how WORTHLESS that entire point is for either side of the fence. Thanks for the help in that though.

I agree. Either way you slice it the chances are quite minimal and I don't really let that argument sway my decision one way or the other as to whether I OC or not.

 

[the1kidd03]

...this point. Funny thing is, my mom and sister went Columbus PD citizen gun training class, and was told they should never OC a gun because... *gasp* ...you might terrorize people and get your gun taken from you. Question...do you or have you personally known anybody who got their gun taken from them and used against them(or stolen) while it was holstered on their person? The media being anti-OC(or anti-guns for that matter), report anybody who opened carried had their gun stolen and/or used against them while was holstered?

In recent history, I can't recall any cases...

Agreed. ALthough, I did have "my gun grabbed" by a LEO.

 

[the1kidd03]

I agree. Either way you slice it the chances are quite minimal and I don't really let that argument sway my decision one way or the other as to whether I OC or not.

Agreed. I don't really care how someone chooses to carry. That's their choice. I just get tired of this ignorant OC bashing for NO legitimate reason(s). If anything, I simply advocate that they seek as much if not more hand to hand training if they carry at all.

 

[Caleb]

Agreed. ALthough, I did have "my gun grabbed" by a LEO.

LEO should stop doing that...one of these days, somebody is going to get shot in the leg and the other person is going to get sued down the street and back.

 

[jeremy]

Agreed. ALthough, I did have "my gun grabbed" by a LEO.

Should have armbarred him....

 

[Caleb]

Agreed. I don't really care how someone chooses to carry. That's their choice. I just get tired of this ignorant OC bashing for NO legitimate reason(s). If anything, I simply advocate that they seek as much if not more hand to hand training if they carry at all.

I concur

 

[the1kidd03]

Should have armbarred him....

The only reason I didn't react violently (which would have landed me in jail) was because my friend who was walking with me and about a half a step ahead of me managed to turn to face me just in time to see the LEO coming up behind me. He gave me an obvious look and slight head shake (no) with his eyes opened wide and mouthing words to me (knowing how I would react initially) and I just HAPPENED to catch onto it/him in time, right as/before the LEO placed his hand on my sidearm before announcing himself. Indeed, had I known Guy Relford back then that would have been one of TWO lawsuits I could have easily won.

Not that I'm sue happy, but given my education and background I have VERY high standards for "leadership" positions such as LEO. I wouldn't care if I earned a dime from a lawsuit, and would settle for attorney fees and the termination of said LEO's OR mandated firearms law training.

 

[jeremy]

The only reason I didn't react violently (which would have landed me in jail) was because my friend who was walking with me and about a half a step ahead of me managed to turn to face me just in time to see the LEO coming up behind me. He gave me an obvious look and slight head shake (no) with his eyes opened wide and mouthing words to me (knowing how I would react initially) and I just HAPPENED to catch onto it/him in time, right as/before the LEO placed his hand on my sidearm before announcing himself. Indeed, had I known Guy Relford back then that would have been one of TWO lawsuits I could have easily won.

Should have still done it...

 

[KG1]

Agreed. I don't really care how someone chooses to carry. That's their choice. I just get tired of this ignorant OC bashing for NO legitimate reason(s). If anything, I simply advocate that they seek as much if not more hand to hand training if they carry at all.

I am definitely an advocate as well of having the additional hand to hand skills to be able to retain and or create distance to deploy a firearm if need be no matter how one chooses to carry.

 

[the1kidd03]

Should have still done it...

Afterwards, I was extremely irritated and kept going over the "should have's." I REALLY wished I had reacted the way I would normally, just to prove a point(s), but I would likely be on the bad end of that legal stick since I don't carry a badge and in this society that seems to mean laws/education/common sense don't apply to you ( in my experience).

 

[hooky]

Of course, cops are routinely killed by their own firearms each year due to the retention issues inherent in OC. As others have posted, tradition and the nature of uniformed carry explain police OC. However, as a nonuniformed carrier, I personally prefer CC. You never hear of someone properly CCing who loses retention of their firearm before they can present it. If they did...well they wouldn't have been CCing.

Also, I'm OCing right now...at home. Because a home invader should expect that I am armed anyway, thus losing key benefits of CCing.

Since you didn't show a cite, I did a little digging. I guess our definitions of routinely are different.

According to the FBI, in 2010 7 officers were killed with their own weapons while an equal number died in motorcycle accidents.

45 died as a result of automobile accidents.
11 officers were struck by vehicles.
7 officers died in motorcycle accidents.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/leoka-2010/officers-feloniously-killed/feloniouslykilled

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/leoka-2010/officers-accidentally-killed

You would hope that an officer never loses his or her life. But to use a made up statistic about their own weapons being used to kill them is a smack in the face to them. Feel free to draw your own conclusions about the dangers of OC without that little bit of made up argument against it.

 

[Hayseed_40]

Agreed. I don't really care how someone chooses to carry. That's their choice. I just get tired of this ignorant OC bashing for NO legitimate reason(s). If anything, I simply advocate that they seek as much if not more hand to hand training if they carry at all.

Do not forget there is just as much cc bashing that goes on around here.

 

[the1kidd03]

Do not forget there is just as much cc bashing that goes on around here.

Not that I've seen. What I see is OC'ers trying to argue to protect their right to choose and using CC'ers arguments in retaliation. OC'ers generally don't care HOW you carry as long as you carry. They retaliate against those attacking their choice.

 

[KG1]

Not that I've seen. What I see is OC'ers trying to argue to protect their right to choose and using CC'ers arguments in retaliation. OC'ers generally don't care HOW you carry as long as you carry. They retaliate against those attacking their choice.

^ This^ what reason would an OC'er have to just come right out and bash a CC'er without being challenged first?

I would argue that someone who chooses to OC would be more concerned about 2A rights to carry however you wish as long as it's legal.

 

[Hayseed_40]

You are right and there is also no leo bashing either...

It gets spread pretty thick by both sides. Both sides say they do not care how somebody caries as long as they carry. That is like saying "excuse me" when you fart at the dinner table. You (general term) do care or you would not be so passionate about the answer (and that is not necessarily a bad thing to be passionate). I CC for my own personal reasons and it is by far the best way for me. Others OC and in most cases I could care less. I am not going to say that I do not care about the method as long as you carry. However, I do not feel that there should be sides on INGO - we are all routing for the same thing as far as gun control and such. It amazes me how much energy is expended here to try to prove CC over OC or OC over CC by either side. Thjis energy needs to be spent on getting people to use the words clip and magazine correctly.

 

[KG1]

You are right and there is also no leo bashing either...

What part don't you get about most OC'rs not caring about how anyone else carries?

Do you think that anyone would've deliberately set out to trash a CC'er the way CC'rs have gone out of their way to trash a persons right to legally OC?

I'm sure that OC'ers would be perfectly content to not have to deal with a CC'er trashing them. They only reciprocate to defend themselves and their position.

 

[Caleb]

Do not forget there is just as much cc bashing that goes on around here.

 

[Hayseed_40]

Now, that is funny right there.

 

[the1kidd03]

You are right and there is also no leo bashing either...

It gets spread pretty thick by both sides. Both sides say they do not care how somebody caries as long as they carry. That is like saying "excuse me" when you fart at the dinner table. You (general term) do care or you would not be so passionate about the answer (and that is not necessarily a bad thing to be passionate). I CC for my own personal reasons and it is by far the best way for me. Others OC and in most cases I could care less. I am not going to say that I do not care about the method as long as you carry. However, I do not feel that there should be sides on INGO - we are all routing for the same thing as far as gun control and such. It amazes me how much energy is expended here to try to prove CC over OC or OC over CC by either side. Thjis energy needs to be spent on getting people to use the words clip and magazine correctly.

Spend the time reading through all of the posts and I think you will see it is not "OC'ing attacking CC'ers" but rather OC'ers advocating the EXACT same thing you said here. "It's our right to choose, quit bashing us, we're all on the same side."

 

[octalman]

Recently while in Utah took the required class to get a non-resident CC permit. Utah is strictly a CC State. However, OC vs CC came up in the class. The instructor discussed the usual Pro - Con arguments. OC and make yourself the first target. OC deters the bad guys. CC gives you the element of surprise. CC slower to deploy. Etc. He said there is ongoing debate about changing the law to allow OC. However, in his opinion a major reason for Utah being CC only is they allow permit holders in any PUBLIC K through college institution. Parents, visitors, teachers, administration, janitor can all CC at a PUBLIC school if holder of a Utah permit. In addition Utah Dept of Safety checks state and national databases every 24 hours to confirm eligibility. If you have a Utah permit and get pulled over for DUI in Indiana, highly likely a letter will arrive quickly rescinding your permit.