Right to work is law!

[CarmelHP]

... And I stand on my point that this legislation is not worth the taxpayer cost... If this is that important to Hoosiers, why was it not presented as a state constitutional amendment? Didn't we put property tax cap amendment on the ballot? ...

How is a referendum less expensive? Please explain that one in detail. I can hardly wait.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Right to work is a pretty obvious infringement on a business owner's rights. I'm not a huge union supporter, but in this case, they had my support.... and should have the support of people that "claim" to love liberty.
Govt should have no hand in regulating collective bargining if a company chooses to do business in such a way.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

88GT Quote:





Quote:
Originally Posted by Olive Drab
That sucking sound is our tax dollars going down the toilet. We could have avoided all this waste (ie... Two sessions of state government where little was accomplished) by just putting RTW on a November ballot referendum vote. Instead we will probably end up with something like they have done with RTW opposition in Ohio and Wisconsin. Sickening! BTW... I have never worked in a union business and passing RTW is not encouraging me to go to work at one. I wonder how much help you will get from union co-workers when you show up and not pay dues. This is just political WASTE of my tax dollars!

So what price tag do you think freedom is worth?

FREEDOM? REALLY? So whenever someone says something about government waste your response is "lets spend our way to freedom"? What a joke. Face reality. The union will get enough votes to get this on a referendum ballot vote. I don't give a crap about RTW! It doesn't keep me up at night. It should have been put on a ballot and the people of Indiana should have decided in the first place. But wait, let me get this right, voting for something, that really wasn't a concern for the majority of Hoosiers until it got politicized by both parties, is somehow against freedom?

Perhaps you've forgotten (or just didn't know) that Indiana's Constitution has no provision for ballot referendae. Our elected Representatives are the only ones empowered to pass legislation. We had to accept all sorts of silly scrap when the Democrats were in power, and the "LOYAL OPPOSITION" of the time didn't stoop to shutting down the legislative process in protest. The Dens merely look like what they are: Bought and paid for agents of a powerful "Special Interest Group" - the labor unions.

 

[Ricnzak]

I just wanted to say that this subject with all of the potential to explode into name calling and insults to others intelligence is being discussed rather rationally and respectively to each others beliefs. This is what makes INGO a really good place to hang out on.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Right to work is a pretty obvious infringement on a business owner's rights. I'm not a huge union supporter, but in this case, they had my support.... and should have the support of people that "claim" to love liberty.
Govt should have no hand in regulating collective bargining if a company chooses to do business in such a way.

Government already has a "hand" in the business through the National Labor Relations Act. Of late, the NLRB could reasonably be renamed "The Pro-Union Support Board" because of its uniform support for unions over the businesses they work for. Additionally, unions have been pressing the government to enact "Card Check" legislation which would remove the secret ballot from union organizing votes, opening dissenting workers to the possibility of union harassment if they don't vote for a union. In its way, such government interference is more egregious than "right to work", which only says a worker need not pay union dues to work.

Of course, what neither side in this would come out and say is that this is a thinly veiled attempt to separate the unions - which heavily contribute almost exclusively to the Democrat Party - from coercing union dues, used to pay off the Democrats, from workers who either don't want to belong to a union, or don't want their dues to go to causes they don't support.

 

[HICKMAN]

Perhaps you've forgotten (or just didn't know) that Indiana's Constitution has no provision for ballot referendae. Our elected Representatives are the only ones empowered to pass legislation. We had to accept all sorts of silly scrap when the Democrats were in power, and the "LOYAL OPPOSITION" of the time didn't stoop to shutting down the legislative process in protest. The Dens merely look like what they are: Bought and paid for agents of a powerful "Special Interest Group" - the labor unions.

 

[dlang0920]

look i am neutral either way i have family members that are gm plant workers uaw i have family members teamsters but i have never been union..in america i feel we have a right to decide and if disagree protest but those unions do that for the super bowl would be a direct insult on our city not to mention the chaos and embarrassment it would cause..why are we having this conversation on a gun members website anyway change thread please..thanks for listening

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Unions and property taxes should both go in the history books. Out dated ideas that once had a place but long ago.

Actually, I don't agree that the labor unions have outlived their usefulness. But their mindset - as evidenced by their protests against RTW and the way in which they are protesting - is counterproductive. Successful unions will find ways to cooperate with their businesses in order to maximize profits and profit sharing with the workers. Unions will also have to abandon the thuggish tactics which they adopted to combat the "company strike breakers" which the "companies" abandoned long ago. As long as union leaders adopt a knee-jerk antagonistic opposition to their company management, they will continue to price themselves out jobs as their companies either move out of the US or fall to the pressures of the international market.

 

[Doug]

Actually, I don't agree that the labor unions have outlived their usefulness. But their mindset - as evidenced by their protests against RTW and the way in which they are protesting - is counterproductive. Successful unions will find ways to cooperate with their businesses in order to maximize profits and profit sharing with the workers. Unions will also have to abandon the thuggish tactics which they adopted to combat the "company strike breakers" which the "companies" abandoned long ago. As long as union leaders adopt a knee-jerk antagonistic opposition to their company management, they will continue to price themselves out jobs as their companies either move out of the US or fall to the pressures of the international market.

So, obviously, the unions just need to get some capital and start their own company!
Then, the workers would own the means of production and could pay good wages to hard-working union employees.

 

[Olive Drab]

Perhaps you've forgotten (or just didn't know) that Indiana's Constitution has no provision for ballot referendae. Our elected Representatives are the only ones empowered to pass legislation. We had to accept all sorts of silly scrap when the Democrats were in power, and the "LOYAL OPPOSITION" of the time didn't stoop to shutting down the legislative process in protest. The Dens merely look like what they are: Bought and paid for agents of a powerful "Special Interest Group" - the labor unions.

Right-to-work referendum may be unconstitutional - Indiana Economic Digest - Indiana

www.in.gov/sos/elections/files/2010_Referendum_Brochure.pdf

Ballot Referendums are allowed for State Constitutional amendments.

HPCarmel, as far as referendums being less expensive, I'm not a government budget expert, but I feel it would have been cheaper to go with a amendment referendum opposed to the way it went down in (and out) of the statehouse the last few years. For myself, I don't feel this was important enough to be on the ballot or the house floor. This really isn't about workers and most of us know that. I don't like when my tax dollars are wasted for political gain from either side of the aisle. This is going to be a long road of tax waste we see all to often. I believe I cannot make my position anymore clear. Have fun gentlemen.

 

[bianjd]

I am a proud union member that gets paid a honest wage and has learned a skill to support my family with. I did not have a option to get a higher education due to finances with my family. I now have a 1yr. old son that I will be able to put through collage because I make good money because the union negotiates with the company I work for to keep my pay current with cost of living. Without union jobs you have no job security and no training unless you have a collage education which cost go up every year. So I am happy to be a union employed person that has job security without collage debt like most of the higher educated americans.

 

[hornadylnl]

I am a proud union member that gets paid a honest wage and has learned a skill to support my family with. I did not have a option to get a higher education due to finances with my family. I now have a 1yr. old son that I will be able to put through collage because I make good money because the union negotiates with the company I work for to keep my pay current with cost of living. Without union jobs you have no job security and no training unless you have a collage education which cost go up every year. So I am happy to be a union employed person that has job security without collage debt like most of the higher educated americans.

I made almost $75k last year in a non union factory in a skilled job my employer trained me in. On the 13th, I start in a new department that they're going to give me new training in. And I have no college education.

 

[JettaKnight]

I made almost $75k last year in a non union factory in a skilled job my employer trained me in. On the 13th, I start in a new department that they're going to give me new training in. And I have no college education.

What! No union to bargain for you? No union to protect you? You should be scared because any day your employer is going to fire you, or pour molten lead on you, or beat you with a rod and dropkick your kittens. Without a union your employer could fire you for spending half the day sleeping!




But seriously, the unions hated this law because most of their represented won't pay for something they can get for free. It will weaken them. The Dems don't like it because weak unions mean less support (money, free advertising in Solidarity magazine) for them in November. I got to hand it to the unions, they sure know how to organize and get their base to walk the picket lines. They real work hard to instill the mindset that protesting and brotherhood is the way to make money. I prefer to think that hard work find a good job is the way (and that may mean leaving several crummy jobs in your lifetime).


Anyone else here get Solidarity magazine? (the official magazine of the red army ) I left the UAW 5 years ago and it still shows up in my mailbox. What a bunch of ungrateful whiners...

 

[ATOMonkey]

And NO they don't. Unions are required to represent non-members ONLY if the UNION insists on an "exclusive representation" contract with the employer in which the union is recognized as the only bargaining entity, but this is not required. Contracts can specify that the union will negotiate only on behalf of members and then there are no free-riders that the unions complain so vehemently about. Unions, however, are afraid that non-members will negotiate better deals with management and want to roadblock that possibility at any cost.

Why do unions hate "free riders" but love "forced riders?" Hint: It's not the good of the worker.

Exactly. Federal Labor laws, as far as I know, only apply to collective bargaining, not representation during termination or discipline.

 

[dross]

I made almost $75k last year in a non union factory in a skilled job my employer trained me in. On the 13th, I start in a new department that they're going to give me new training in. And I have no college education.

I love your story every time you post a piece of it. The cream rises to the top.

I was working on a construction site and through the advice/smack in the head from an old bricklayer who had no reason to care about me whatsoever, I realized I needed to get an education. But how? My parents had divorced, my Mom was barely making it, I didn't get along with my Dad who wasn't helping my Mom with my sister. I had no money, and technically my Dad made too much money for me to sign up for government help.

I joined the Army for the college fund. I hated the idea of joining the military, it was like volunteering for prison, I felt at the time. Found out I was a pretty good soldier, stayed in for eleven years. I didn't have a single college credit the day I signed up.

While I was in, I went to school at night, studied for and passed equivalency exams, tested out of whatever I could, and attended night classes at 10 or 12 different schools. By the time I scraped together all the requirements for a B.A. I had a total of 180 credits, when I only needed 120 for my degree. I had an extra 60 because I gathered credits however I could get them and not all of them applied to my degree. So I ended up with a four year degree created out of six years worth of credits. Then I got my M.A.

During all this, as I focused on my school and my job and what little time was left over to my wife, I listened to my fellow soldiers complain that sure, the Army helps pay for school, but there's no time to actually go.

So, Hornady, you went to work and showed your stuff, and proved that approaching a job as a player on the employer's team can make a college degree irrelevant to making a nice living. I proved that if you want something bad enough, you can figure out a way to get it.

I wonder where we'd both be if we chose to be victims and put our lives at the mercy of others?

 

[rhart]

I am 47 years old. I worked for the same company for 18 years. I have been mostly self employed since which is about 6 years. I currently am working at a temporary airport job that pays VERY well. Non Union. I have nevr in my life wished that I was in a Union. I have cussed the union on more than one occasion. How about the support and election of Obama???? Are all of you Union guys proud of that?
I have bought about 6 new trucks in my life and I read recently that the Union is responsible for jacking the price up for every vehocle like 1500.00.
Hey, do what you gotta do to support your family and survive but you can survive without the union.

 

[dross]

So, obviously, the unions just need to get some capital and start their own company!
Then, the workers would own the means of production and could pay good wages to hard-working union employees.

How would you like to be a worker bargaining with THAT employer?

Check out sometime how Michael Moore treats union labor when he makes films, or how Ralph Nader has treated his workers over the years.

The very last thing you ever want to do is work for someone who has your best interests at heart. The only way to job security is to work for someone who has THEIR best interests at heart. Then all you have to do is make yourself indispensable.

Check out any company bigger than about 50 employees that's been around for 20 years or more. Look around and you'll find one or two, maybe three employees that have been around forever. Some of them have nasty personalities. Why are they there? At some point they took on some job that no one wanted to do, or knew how to do, and now the company can't get rid of them if if they wanted to.

dross's secret to prosperity: Provide something that is vital to the self-interest of someone else.

dross's prescription for poverty - Seek out the protection of people who have your best interests at heart.

Don't say you were never told.

Disclaimer: This post is not specific to the quoted post. It just served as a handy springboard.

 

[hornadylnl]

Thanks Dross. I take a lot of pride in the job I do and the feedback I get from the production side. I imagine it's this way in almost every factory but at mine, the maintenance workers usually don't have a good reputation with the production workers. We're seen as lazy, overpaid, etc. I actually had one production coordinator call in to dispatch with an equipment problem. She threatened to pluck the dispatcher's nose hairs if he didn't dispatch me to the call.

I don't always get it right the first time or make the perfect fix but I always try to do my best with the tools and parts that I have. I've been on my current line for a total of less than 2 years. It's highly automated compared to the others and have been training several guys for the other shifts and I'm training my replacement now. The downtime from the other guys is way more than when I'm there.

The other night, they had some tooling issues on a press and couldn't find a bolt to put it all back together and left it for me. I'm the only one that came up with the idea to take the bolt out of the tooling for the other side and switch it back and forth to keep the line running while we got a new bolt made. We lost some production due to the time it took to switch back and forth but had I not done that, they must likely would have shut the line down and lost the entire shift's production. It took 4 hours into my shift to get the bolt.

The point in all of this is most people whether trained/untrained, educated or not, don't think outside the box. A 5 year apprencticeship wouldn't have made much difference in my abilities. I would have more specialty skills in a specific area but I'm a jack of all trades in my job.

 

[hornadylnl]

My company used to have a phrase posted throughout the plant. "Without a profit, there are no jobs". Amazing concept, isn't it?

 

[bobzilla]

Without union jobs you have no job security and no training unless you have a collage education which cost go up every year. So I am happy to be a union employed person that has job security without collage debt like most of the higher educated americans.

I'm just going to say "You're wrong." There's so much wron with that statement, it's like it's straight from the union propoganda machine.