Report: Union to Blame for State Fair Collapse

[Titanium Man]

Did anyone expect anything less.

Hmmm let's see. The State Fair did not have an emergency plan in place, let's see isn't the State Fair owned by the STATE! The STATE failed to listen what GOVERNMENT meteorologists reported heading straight to the fair grounds!!! Looks like the government entities failed miserably and are looking for a scapegoat. It really truly wasn't the issue of poor workmanship on anyones part, but getting everyone the heck out of the way when the burst of wind came through and blew the stand down. That's the failure and once again, government entities are truly at the heart of it. What a surprise. I'm so sick of the powers that be, blaming the worker for everything!!!

This thread needs to go in the politics section, because that's what this issue is about.

Riddle me this...................my sweetcorn patch was completely obliterated by that gust of wind. I guess I should blame my wife who tends it through the summer, and not myself for forgetting to erect blocking fences to keep such a thing from happening. Who da thunk it.

 

[1911 DeadHead]

No, it's not apples-apples. But they are similar in that in the police scenerio, the officer was, eventually, held responsible for the quality of his work, his professionalism, etc. I don't recall that the "company" that he works for nor its management and stock holders were punished for that guy's actions.

In our typical, blame the other guy-he told me to do it that way, fashion workers in unions are held blameless for the actions they do and those that they don't. Meanwhile in many other areas of the economy you are held responsible for your actions.

When I'm on a job and I run into a speed bump that won't let me do my job according to the blue print, I talk to my forman about it. If he doesn't have a solution, he will talk to the general foreman. If he doesn't have a solution, it comes down to the project manager. If he doesn't have a solution, it most likely go to the architect, and there will have to be change to the print.

Construction is so unlike being part of police department. Police officers have to make quick executive decisions, that are sometimes rash, and they don't have a superior to run to with questions on handling certain situations.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

When I'm on a job and I run into a speed bump that won't let me do my job according to the blue print, I talk to my forman about it. If he doesn't have a solution, he will talk to the general foreman. If he doesn't have a solution, it comes down to the project manager. If he doesn't have a solution, it most likely go to the architect, and there will have to be change to the print.

Construction is so unlike being part of police department. Police officers have to make quick executive decisions, that are sometimes rash, and they don't have a superior to run to with questions on handling certain situations.

What you're saying is valid, but you're missing my point.

 

[1911 DeadHead]

What you're saying is valid, but you're missing my point.

I guess I am. I just don't want workers being blamed for something that could have easily been avoided.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I guess I am. I just don't want workers being blamed for something that could have easily been avoided.

I don't want to see people blamed for something that's not their fault. I only know what was on that 30sec. story on the news this morning, so I cannot argue the validity of the charge. I simply found it amazing that blame was being cast onto a union local, because I've never heard of that before. On the other hand, if the employees were negligent, I have no problem with the union receiving the appropriate amount of the blame. That's all I was saying. By the same token, if they completed the job as instructed and they knew their instructions were incorrect, they are, in my view, complicit.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Fellas....I think you're arguing over something that isn't worth arguing over.



I have yet to see a credible news source that has reported that responsibility has been assigned in the actual collapse. The report referenced in the OP has only mentioned that fines have been issued as a result of viloations uncovered during the investigation.


ETA: WTHR report link:

http://www.wthr.com/story/16768889/iosha-announces-fines-in-indiana-state-fair-stage-collapse

Notable Quotables:

Two independent investigations regarding the structural collapse and decision-making analysis are both in progress. IOSHA's report, with the findings of Witt Associates and Thornton Tomasetti, will give us the information we need to develop a comprehensive plan to take us forward. We anticipate those reports in the next several weeks."

The stagehands union, IATSE Local 30, also faces an $11,500 fine for violations related to protection, training and maintaining the required records. As the employer, IOSHA says the Local 30 failed to take proper safety precautions and failed to take appropriate steps to ensure the load-bearing roof was properly secured.

This may ultimately be part of the reason the structure fell, but in the report the $11,500 fine is not directly assigning responsibility for the collapse, just penalties for violations in the construction of it.

 

[Seabee Lineman]

Why would they not blame the union. The collapse happened at the STATE fairgrounds. Several or our STATE political figures have just been called out by the unions over the "right to work" issue. Why would they not want to put a black eye on them.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Why would they not blame the union. The collapse happened at the STATE fairgrounds. Several or our STATE political figures have just been called out by the unions over the "right to work" issue. Why would they not want to put a black eye on them.

Why would they not cite the union for labor violations discovered during the investigation?

 

[down3green]

When I saw it blowing in the wind, I was wondering why are those people not heading for cover?

It wasn't real hard for any average joe to be able to look to the sky in the west and see a bad storm was coming it. I don't care what I paid for tickets, if my family had been there we would have headed for cover where it was safe. Common sense has to kick in at some point, the people shouldn't even have needed to be told to head for cover.

.

Apparently "Act of God" and "Common Sense" are no longer options.

What a messed up society we've become.


.

 

[snapping turtle]

I have been holding in some of my thoughts and this for some time now. I know a bit about rigging and speaker installs. Most of you have been to places I have installed them at: be it your local GYM or most of the concert venues around that are solid structures.

It seems some shortcuts were taken on the corner load bearing guy wire attachment points. (was that call made by the state fair or the Mid America side we don't have the contracts to know) The speaker tower on stage left is seen snapping in several videos. A guy wire must have snapped like a whip to cause that side to collapse. (It takes a lot of force to break it like that) So the attachment points must have moved but to snap a tower like that something had to break and snap like a whip. One of the money saving parts of that stage seem to be the use of cables for the X-Braces instead of steel beams or steel supports. It seems these actually worked, It was the corner tower guy wires that moved. I could not see these X braces in the videos but in still photos of the stage before the storm in daylight you can see them. (that was my theory as to the failure but proven wrong the next day with the still photo)

Sounds like a problem with the old "we can save on labor costs and hauling of the equipment if we make these things happen." It does seem lately that structures for outdoor concerts have the do more with less mind set.

The IOSHA fines have nothing to do with Why the stage collapsed. It has to do with workplace violations. The true nature of why it fell are still up in the air.(don't think they don't and have not known what the problem was for some time now heck we taped and re-watched most of the videos we could at the office and came to some of our own findings in about 4 hours.) I can tell that many things were overlooked. It was a big gust of wind but there still should have been a stage up and ready to go when the bad weather ended.

The failure to consider soil conditions when placing cable anchor point. That seems to be on the union somehow. I would think that would be on the Employer also. The other was no harness over 4 feet off the ground. (Someone forgot to put on the harness) Happens every day on every job site,

Mid America's failure to maintain and use current engineering calculations and documentation. Somebody did not do the paperwork.

Were the real Kicker is: failure to provide appropriate, qualified supervision. (This was most likely a person in charge without some type of degree or cert as called out in the contract or a ANSI regulation). It is real hard to find these people it is harder to define what appropriate, qualified supervision is. Easier on construction of buildings as we have lots of standards and codes to reference.

These are KNOWING VIOLATIONS against Mid America, That means they KNEW ABOUT IT and did not take action to resolve it.

 

[actaeon277]

Or, you just don't hang out near temporary structures in extreme weather conditions.

 

[Clay]

I am in a union and because of it I have gotten free lance jobs. When I have done this, the union doesn't issue me a check for the work, the company I worked for did. So to say the employer didn't have a report is BS! The union is not an employer, they provide training and representation for union employees, but do not employ them. Also, the union did not design the stage.

What I see here is the state of Indiana is looking for someone else to blame so they can't get sued for more money. Another anti union thing by the state of Indiana.

how do you know who the employer was, and who the supervisors were? Did the promoter hire the union to do the work, or did the promoter hire the workers and oversee them?

So far Ive not seen anyone explain how the work was actually bid, and performed, just a lot of assumptions.

 

[actaeon277]

how do you know who the employer was, and who the supervisors were? Did the promoter hire the union to do the work, or did the promoter hire the workers and oversee them?

So far Ive not seen anyone explain how the work was actually bid, and performed, just a lot of assumptions.

That's the problem, assumptions. So bring out the latest "whipping boy".

 

[rotortech]

I just saw on the news today that they are blaming the music act for not agreeing to a delay of the show. What a circus.

 

[jblomenberg16]

I just saw on the news today that they are blaming the music act for not agreeing to a delay of the show. What a circus.

Well, I don't exactly seeing anyone standing up and claiming responsibility yet either. Yet part of the due dilligence required in a case such as this, means that there are going to be some mistakes that happened that resulted in the ultimate failure of the structure.

Some of those mistakes may have been preventable, and some may not have been.

Either way, I find it so ironic that as soon as something happens like this, the publich outcry is "How could this happen...we need answers, and need to hold those responsible accountable." Yet, when responsiblity is assigned, and folks are held accountable, the public outcry is "That is rediculous, they are trying to blame so and so and such and such and CYA."


Honestly, what would make you guys happy?

 

[snapping turtle]

I still say the stage should have been in fine condition after the storm.

 

[longbow]

Interesting.......I'd share more, but when you read the final report you will be scratching your head.

Some random observations and insite.......................

....never saddle a dead horse........It fits and should be ok....get get it done.....I don't need to wear fall protection......we've done it like that before.....Secure that tarp and cover that up................

 

[longbow]

I also hope they show the detailed photos of what failed..........I'll post some bad ones, because the others I can't.

 

[longbow]

 

[longbow]