Reloading while one in the chamber.

[mk2ja]

Rhino is a GM at copy editing. I'm impressed.

Thank you, sir! I live to serve!

Yeah, that's cool and all, but it really messes with somebody trying to quote him when he keeps making points I didn't see when I read it the first time!


ETA - Yay 3400 posts

 

[rhino]

Yeah, that's cool and all, but it really messes with somebody trying to quote him when he keeps making points I didn't see when I read it the first time!

Heh! Sorry about that.

It was easier than splitting your message into multiple quotes (which can be tedious). Point taken and I shall endeavor to avoid such in the future.

Well, there's also the classic "fixed it for you" that just feels so good, even when the "fix" is just another guy's opinion.

 

[Black Cloud]

This video?

http://youtu.be/b2Upjn5DR0o

 

[thompal]

What you were watching was a competition derived technique. Like Rhino said its about speed, not realism. If you compete in USPSA it is essential, if not, don't worry about it.

I doubt it comes from the competition world. My dad was drilling it into my head in the 60's, and all of his training came from the Marines (WWII). He never read gun magazines, so I doubt he picked it up there, either.

 

[David Rose]

I doubt it comes from the competition world. My dad was drilling it into my head in the 60's, and all of his training came from the Marines (WWII). He never read gun magazines, so I doubt he picked it up there, either.

What exactly was he drilling in your head?

 

[theblackknight]

Is anyone here claiming this is a technique for anything other them sport?(round counting)


BTW, the only thing that makes this a game technique is knowing your round count. The same in battery reload dropping a partial is called. . . a smart move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX9Y9FAK51U

"Im not going to loose a shot or my life over a partial magazine".

Side note: That little lever on the side of your semi-auto pistol is not a slide release; it is a slide catch, and pressing the slide catch out of the way so that the slide can move forward has several negative impacts, including:
it requires more fine motor control than using your support hand to pull the slide to the rear and release it
using your hand to pull the slide to the rear and release it is already part of your immediate action drill for clearing stoppages, so it builds consistency in thought and muscle memory which is helpful in stressful situations
over (a significant amount of) time, it will wear down the slide catch so that it eventually will not be reliable in catching the slide
it does not allow the recoil spring to exert its maximum force on pushing the round from the magazine and seating it in the chamber.

When are people going to stop repeating this crap?

Here's a copy of a glock manual. http://eu.glock.com/downloads/GLOCK_Gen4_en.pdf

Notice they call it a "magazine catch", and glock even makes extended magazine "catches" and extended slide "catches". Pretty strange. Good thing a maker would never do such a thing for legal or logistical reasons.

 

[dragun762]

seems to me that it would take all the fun out of hitting the slide release

 

[mk2ja]

When are people going to stop repeating this crap?

Here's a copy of a glock manual. http://eu.glock.com/downloads/GLOCK_Gen4_en.pdf

Notice they call it a "magazine catch", and glock even makes extended magazine "catches" and extended slide "catches". Pretty strange. Good thing a maker would never do such a thing for legal or logistical reasons.

Looks like they refer to the "magazine catch" and the "slide lock" in that manual. Not entirely sure what you're trying to argue here

Hope you kept reading to see the discussion between rhino and me. Some good points in there.

 

[thompal]

What exactly was he drilling in your head?

Always reload before the slide locks back on your pistol. I suspect the only reason he didn't say that about a rifle is the only one he used in the service was a Garand.

I was about 6 or 7, so I never thought to ask.

 

[theblackknight]

Looks like they refer to the "magazine catch" and the "slide lock" in that manual. Not entirely sure what you're trying to argue here

Hope you kept reading to see the discussion between rhino and me. Some good points in there.

The point is, how do you release the magazine with a device that is by name, not designed to do so?? See where your semantics game of scrabble falls apart?

The Beretta manual for a 92 calls it a slide catch,but you are a dumbass to sling shot the slide and decock the dam thing mid shooting.

 

[JetGirl]

In the 70's the FBI was still issuing revolvers. Gunsite and IPSC were born at the same time to the same "parents". Gunsite technique was competition technique until it was eclipsed by better ideas and they decided to take their ball and go home.

I have no clue. I'm fairly certain I heard that in an interview with Michael Mann about the training (Gunsite) he sent his actors to before filming his movies.
In the shootout at the end of "Thief", James Caan reloads that way. It was explained that he reloaded after 6 shots (leaving one in the chamber and one still in the mag when it dropped) because if you had a "battlefield pick up" it most likely would be the officers sized...so training to memorize six shots and mag change was what they taught. Maybe I had the year wrong...but that's what was given as the reason for the early drop - at least as portrayed in film.
Mann was notorious for getting gun stuff details right (among other things), so I really never questioned it.
YMMV

 

[jgreiner]

So I watched a video in another section where the shooters were shooting through mulitple mags and doing a speedy mag change.

One thing I noticed was that when he had a ten round mag he shot 9 rounds (leaving one in the chamber) then ejected the mag and loaded the next mag. So he had 11 rounds and didnt have to hit the slide release.


I have never seen this before or heard of it. Could someone tell me more aobut it. Are there advantages or disadvantages? Is this what you are supposed to do?

If I am in a defensive shooting situation, most likely the LAST thing I will be doing is counting rounds.

 

[cosermann]

This clip from Clint Smith is from a more practical defensive perspective (rather than competition):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbUgANV_yL4

As others have said/suggested, there is some difference of opinion on this and additionally whether to save/drop mags, etc. - often as a result of perspective, such as more of a competition vs. self-defense perspective.

Personally, I'm not taking my gun apart in the middle of a defensive situation until it stops working, unless possibly I think the threat is over, and/or have a significant amount of time behind some cover.

 

[rvb]

I'll just add that in competition, we don't typically count. I've never met anyone that [honestly] claimed to be able to shoot, think, move, AND count. We just decide where in the course it will make sense to reload, and hit it at that place (eg pre-plan to engage T1-T4 w/ 2 rounds, then reload while moving to next position... ). I still do slide-lock reloads in competition, too. Maybe 1/8th of my reloads. Sometimes my game plan requires all N+1 rounds. sometimes I fire extra and loose count.

I view the speed reload (what we're talking about here) as 90% competition-only. Now IF I'm in a situation I've fired a bunch of rounds and want my gun topped off, would I do a speed reload? I'm not going to give a blanket "no." But most likely I figure I'll be shooting to slide-lock, so I still practice those about every time I practice.

I wish the Boone Co sherrif had done slide-lock loads in their vid. I don't believe it would have changed their results, but would have been more "honest." That said, only gun-people are going to catch that.

As for using the "Slide Release/Catch" [whatever] lever... I do it every time. It's faster. faster wins. I've never fumbled it, even when the slide-lock caught me by surprise in competition or w/ gloves (w/ gloves I'm more likely to prevent the SL from working and ending up w/ an empty chamber). I don't care that all guns dont work the same or don't have the lever in the same spot, I'll be shooting MY gun. If for some reason I am shooting some different/strange gun, I know how to work a slide, too...

If you prefer racking the slide, that's fine too. I find it a waste of time.

2c

-rvb

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I don't care that all guns dont work the same or don't have the lever in the same spot, I'll be shooting MY gun.

Out of curiousity, how do you know this?

The slide release is not in the same spot with all pistols. What happens when you are fighting with a different weapon?

 

[rvb]

Out of curiousity, how do you know this?

The slide release is not in the same spot with all pistols. What happens when you are fighting with a different weapon?

seems I answered this.... if only you had quoted the next sentence, too.

If for some reason I am shooting some different/strange gun, I know how to work a slide, too...

I know what gun I'll most likely be shooting because it's the one I'm carrying. Is their a remote possibility I'll end up shooting someone else's? Sure. How often does that happen? btw: we could make the same points about hitting the mag release, they aren't all in the same place either. Nor are safeties. Where do we draw the line worrying about what gun we may pick up?

-rvb

 

[Kirk Freeman]

How often does that happen?

I have consulted with noted fighting expert Mr. Murphy and Mr. Murphy is quoted as saying "whenever I can make it happen."

 

[JetGirl]

We just decide where in the course it will make sense to reload, and hit it at that place

Seems logical.

 

[mk2ja]

The point is, how do you release the magazine with a device that is by name, not designed to do so?? See where your semantics game of scrabble falls apart?

Cute.

The Beretta manual for a 92 calls it a slide catch,but you are a dumbass to sling shot the slide and decock the dam thing mid shooting.

Classy.

The point is, how do you release the magazine with a device that is by name, not designed to do so?? See where your semantics game of scrabble falls apart?

The Beretta manual for a 92 calls it a slide catch,but you are a dumbass to sling shot the slide and decock the dam thing mid shooting.

I do see your point about the terminology. Thankfully, I didn't list the thing's name (though you could argue I implied it) among the reasons I recommend not using it to send the slide home. There are plenty of non-semantic reasons to avoid that habit; see previous discussion in the thread.

Since using the pull-and-release method does not inherently decock the pistol, I have to assume you are alluding to the fact that a slip of the hand can easily engage the safety, which does have the effect of decocking the M9. Yes, admittedly this is true and unfortunate; it is one of several reasons I dislike the M9. At least that issue could be easily solved by moving the safety off the slide and onto the frame, an improvement Taurus made on their licensed reproduction, the PT92.

It is tactically sound to use the pull-and-release method to send the slide home on a new magazine. However, even if it were not, there are other situations when that action is required—immediate action drills. To put the safety in that location was a terrible design idea.

 

[theblackknight]

Cute.




Classy.





I do see your point about the terminology. Thankfully, I didn't list the thing's name (though you could argue I implied it) among the reasons I recommend not using it to send the slide home. There are plenty of non-semantic reasons to avoid that habit; see previous discussion in the thread.

Since using the pull-and-release method does not inherently decock the pistol, I have to assume you are alluding to the fact that a slip of the hand can easily engage the safety, which does have the effect of decocking the M9. Yes, admittedly this is true and unfortunate; it is one of several reasons I dislike the M9. At least that issue could be easily solved by moving the safety off the slide and onto the frame, an improvement Taurus made on their licensed reproduction, the PT92.

It is tactically sound to use the pull-and-release method to send the slide home on a new magazine. However, even if it were not, there are other situations when that action is required—immediate action drills. To put the safety in that location was a terrible design idea.

OPPS, I intented to mean "anyone who sling shots a beretta is a dumbass".


Another fail of the slide rack only,rack always mindset is using light.

Using a light with this grip(the grip itself, not the ring) seems to work the best because I dont have to change my grip much and can still crush the gun.

Go try this with a surefire in a dark closet and do a grip-rip reload. Wasnt that fun!You just flashed yourself in the face with your 100% awesome sauce reload.



All of this talk of "battle field pick ups" is absolutly silly.