Reloading questions...cleaning brass (SS) and primer removal

[Lodogg2221]

Hi all.

Just getting started here, but with lead concerns, I think Im going to go with stainless media and wet tumbling.

Question is, there are a couple places to get the media if you know what size you want. Or you can pay a bit more and get it from STM. Anyone know what size to get? Need to save all the money I can here, so I can get components/dies....every little bit helps.

The other question, most guys deprime before cleaning, but I have a Lee Classic Turret with Lee dies, so depriming will also resize....and resizing generally requires lube and clean cases doesnt it?

 

[spencer rifle]

I only use dry cleaning, but always deprime after cleaning. That way not media gets stuck in the primer hole.

Depends on what you are resizing, and what dies you are using. Straight cases (like 9mm) and carbide dies require no lube. Non-carbide dies and shouldered/rifle cases will require lube.

 

[Lodogg2221]

Well, right now Ive only got .223 dies. Non-carbide, which wouldnt really matter, since Id need to lube the cases anyway.
So in that case, can I deprime before cleaning with my Lee Pacesetter die without cleaning the case first? Or will I need to wipe down the outside of the case?

 

[tsm]

Buffalo Arms has SS media just a little cheaper than STM:

Stainless Steel Media|Buffalo Arms

and, if you want to include primer pocket cleaning in the process, just get yourself an inexpensive decapping die and use that before you clean (the case doesn't touch the die when you use those).

 

[Lodogg2221]

Buffalo Arms has SS media just a little cheaper than STM:

Stainless Steel Media|Buffalo Arms

and, if you want to include primer pocket cleaning in the process, just get yourself an inexpensive decapping die and use that before you clean (the case doesn't touch the die when you use those).

Well, Ive got extra turrets...I suppose I could just put a Lee decapping die and use my press to do it. Easier than getting something else it would seem...but wasted turret, though they are cheaper than another press...

 

[tsm]

I understand your problem. I've got a very old (20+ years) Lyman TMag turret press and that model has 6 holes in the turret. Those extra couple of positions do come in handy.

 

[mr.steve]

I have the Lee precision classic turret press. To use a Lee hardness tester, sizing dies and a universal decapper die I bought the Lee reloader press. New they're only $30.00. ( https://fsreloading.com/lee-precision-reloader-press-90045.html ) This let's me deprime before an ultrasonic lsd bath. I don't have to disturb my turrets this way.

 

[warthog]

can't find a Reloader press for love nor money and I've been looking for a while now.
they come when I'm broke like now and go faster than I can get money for one.

I don't have much money in the first place so if it's hard to believe $30 is hard for me to come up with, maybe we need to trade financial situations for a bit.

I have repeatedly tried trading for one as well, no luck.

Back to the subject at hand, I use Spencer Rifle's method. I also use a Lee Turret press with multiple turrets so I don't have to reset all the time.
All dies stay set up in the turret so all I do is change a turret and shell holder to change calibers. I hand prime everything rather than use the on press unit.

 

[mr.steve]

can't find a Reloader press for love nor money and I've been looking for a while now.

I just had a thought now, A new turret is only about $12.00 . This extra turret could be set up for the decapper die and any other dies like sizing dies. Matter of fact, I might just use the single stage for hardness testing and set up a turret for sizing only.

 

[jblomenberg16]

I always tumble before I lube and size. Not sure if it is necessary, but I'd rather not put the carbon and/or dirt into the sizing die.

The downside is I do often get tumbling media in the flash hole, but that comes out easy enough when I do a final inspection for case cracks and splits prior to priming anyway.

 

[Broom_jm]

Hmm, lots going on here!

The OP is looking to save money...but wants to use stainless media for wet tumbling?

The process for reloading 9mm on a Lee Classic Turret goes like this:

1) Tumble fired cases for ~20 minutes.
2) Deprime/resize with carbide dies.
3) Seat new primer.
4) Bell case mouth and charge with powder.
5) Seat new bullet.

Done.

I commend people who are concerned about their health, but unless you're shooting AND CASTING lead bullets, or huffing the dust out of your dry-media tumbler, you're putting way too much thought into it. Don't eat a juicy apple WHILE you reload and wash your hands when you're done. When your cases are finished tumbling, don't open the lid right away. Use a dryer sheet to pick up some of the dust. When you put the cases in your separator and tumble them to get the media out, leave the lid closed on that for a minute or two, as well.

Heck, if the brass didn't get DIRTY when you shot it (landed on concrete, wood, gravel, carpet, etc.) there is no need to clean it at all. Just reload the stuff. For the life of me, I can't understand why all the n00bs getting into reloading today think their ammo has to be as shiny as factory stuff. The bullets do not care and it will never be reflected in your group size. Make your cases clean...but don't obsess about "shiny".

 

[Lodogg2221]

Hmm, lots going on here!

The OP is looking to save money...but wants to use stainless media for wet tumbling?

The process for reloading 9mm on a Lee Classic Turret goes like this:

1) Tumble fired cases for ~20 minutes.
2) Deprime/resize with carbide dies.
3) Seat new primer.
4) Bell case mouth and charge with powder.
5) Seat new bullet.

Done.

I commend people who are concerned about their health, but unless you're shooting AND CASTING lead bullets, or huffing the dust out of your dry-media tumbler, you're putting way too much thought into it. Don't eat a juicy apple WHILE you reload and wash your hands when you're done. When your cases are finished tumbling, don't open the lid right away. Use a dryer sheet to pick up some of the dust. When you put the cases in your separator and tumble them to get the media out, leave the lid closed on that for a minute or two, as well.

Heck, if the brass didn't get DIRTY when you shot it (landed on concrete, wood, gravel, carpet, etc.) there is no need to clean it at all. Just reload the stuff. For the life of me, I can't understand why all the n00bs getting into reloading today think their ammo has to be as shiny as factory stuff. The bullets do not care and it will never be reflected in your group size. Make your cases clean...but don't obsess about "shiny".

Im not sure whats wrong with trying to be a bit frugal. Thats why tons of people reload in the first place. If we all had disposable income like some here must, we would just be paying $1 a round for .223.

As for media and lead, I have children and an not going to take the chance that they wont at some point be around when Im doing my cleaning. They enjoy helping, and for that reason alone, the health issue is very relevant.

And I dont recall obsessing about shiny brass, nor am I a noob to reloading, just brass reloading.
But thanks for your input....

Under edit:

The whole point of my questions is to learn what works and whats best. I see tons of people using vibratory tumblers, and was going to get one, but read about the lead issue, and well, seems like to me that with small children around, it would be better to have wet tumbling, even though the idea of it (to me) really sucks.
If its nothing to worry about, then Id like to know that too.

Everyone here was a noob at some point, but I guess I figured that a forum was for asking questions and discussing things, and not just reserved for those who already knew everything there was to know about a given subject. We all have questions at some point about something.

The brass cleaning is the only thing I have questions about. Having reloaded several 10k rounds of shotshells, Ive got the process down, and can work through the rest.
I was just trying to figure out whats what and why people do things the way they do.
Ive not seen anyone say to just leave the primers in and tumble away....but seems that lots do from responses on other forums.
Heck, on my shotshells, there is no cleaning. Some of my hulls have 10 reloads on them, and have never had a primer pocket cleaned. Of course they are much larger primers than anything on a rifle/handgun....so maybe its entirely unnecessary.
Maybe its entirely unnecessary for pistol/rifle rounds too....I dont know, and thats why Im asking questions....

 

[Boiled Owl]

Heck, on my shotshells, there is no cleaning. Some of my hulls have 10 reloads on them, and have never had a primer pocket cleaned. Of course they are much larger primers than anything on a rifle/handgun....so maybe its entirely unnecessary.
Maybe its entirely unnecessary for pistol/rifle rounds too....I dont know, and thats why Im asking questions....

I think what Broom is trying to relate is they need to be clean but not necessarily shiny.

Shotguns are a repack and crimp down the plastic. Brass uses a die to work the brass back into shape. Brass needs to be clean for that process.

I started with a vibratory tumbler (and still use) Then added a used wet tumbler.

Let's say I want to clean 45ACP. I just tumble them (dry) until they are shinier then brooms_jm's brass!, then run thru the carbide die set and reload them.

If I run a batch of filthy once fired military, de-prime using a LEE universal decapper die, then tumble wet, swage pockets, size, trim. Then proceed to reload.

 

[Lodogg2221]

So then, as Brooms_jm said, am I overthinking the lead exposure thing?

I know the kids will want to help some, and they probably could even if I used a vibratory tumbler, if I waited until they were clean, and sifted out.

Im not concerned too much with me, more the kids. If its as easy as just washing hands after, then that would seem to be the way to go.

From what I know so far (which is very little), the process with dry goes like this:
Throw sorted brass into media, tumble, sift, then proceed with reloading process.

Wet: Decap (or not if we dont care about primer pocket), add pins, water, other and tumble. Sift, lay out to dry, then proceed with reloading process.

Maybe Im just overthinking the WHOLE thing, not just the lead like Broom said....

 

[jblomenberg16]

I differ on the cleanliness discussion. Why wouldn't a person want to get them as clean as they could? Even if the cases never landed on the ground, floor, etc., there is still some carbon on the cases from firing. I don't think I've ever seen a pistol case come out of any gun perfectly pristine. There is always some residue on at least a portion of the case mouth.

Loading dirty cases means that if you shoot a lot, you will be putting that dirt into the chamber and ultimately down the barrel. And, yes, for that matter, if you don't get all of the tumbling media out of and off the outside of the cases it can do the same thing.

I was talking to some of the top M1 Garand shooters at the National Match last year. They are all going to SS media, as they are finding that some of the residue from walnut and corn cob media is actually causing them to have premature throat erosion. How do they know? They've actually tested it. They've had custom barrels fitted on some of their competition guns, and had throat erosion checked when new, and then periodically as they accumulate rounds. Those using walnut media were seeing the barrels wear out faster than those wet tumbling with SS.


So, OP...do what you think is necessary to reach your level of satisfaction. I personally clean all of my brass, rifle and pistol alike, until it is as clean and shiny as I can get it. I've been thinking really hard about making the jump to SS as the next step.

 

[Lodogg2221]

I differ on the cleanliness discussion. Why wouldn't a person want to get them as clean as they could? Even if the cases never landed on the ground, floor, etc., there is still some carbon on the cases from firing. I don't think I've ever seen a pistol case come out of any gun perfectly pristine. There is always some residue on at least a portion of the case mouth.

Loading dirty cases means that if you shoot a lot, you will be putting that dirt into the chamber and ultimately down the barrel. And, yes, for that matter, if you don't get all of the tumbling media out of and off the outside of the cases it can do the same thing.

I was talking to some of the top M1 Garand shooters at the National Match last year. They are all going to SS media, as they are finding that some of the residue from walnut and corn cob media is actually causing them to have premature throat erosion. How do they know? They've actually tested it. They've had custom barrels fitted on some of their competition guns, and had throat erosion checked when new, and then periodically as they accumulate rounds. Those using walnut media were seeing the barrels wear out faster than those wet tumbling with SS.


So, OP...do what you think is necessary to reach your level of satisfaction. I personally clean all of my brass, rifle and pistol alike, until it is as clean and shiny as I can get it. I've been thinking really hard about making the jump to SS as the next step.

Well, Im not as picky as they are, but my initial thinking was that since I have yet to invest in ANY type of cleaning media system, I might as well do it once and be done with it.
Im not really thrilled with having to dry brass, but its not that big a deal, as I doubt Ill ever have need of cleaning and reloading in the same day....

Besides, cost wise, the equipment itself isnt much different in price.

HF vibratory tumbler is about $50 and their small dual tub rotary is about the same. Both have pretty good reviews, though the dual tub does get more positives.

Anyway, I appreciate all the input. Its all helpful.

 

[nucone]

I use an ultrasonic cleaner because I reload 5.7x28 that cannot be tumbled as it would damage the coating. I discovered through experience to only decap bottleneck cartridges before cleaning and then only because it makes draining the cleaning solution easier. Clean is all that is necessary to size to protect both your brass and dies. While brass as shiny as a Marines belt buckle is pretty, it doesn't do anything for you other than perhaps making it easier to find on the ground. That said, if you don't decap before any wet cleaning, it takes a long time for moisture trapped in the primer cup to evaporate unless you use some form of applied heat to accelerate the process. I have yet to see a primer pocket or flash hole that needed cleaning.

 

[ksick26]

Soooo One of those Noobs here....

Yes, there is clean brass and then there is shiny brass. However if there are people that want to have a mirror like finish on their brass, what is wrong with that? Most of us that reload are doing it as, let's face it, a hobby or to support something that we enjoy doing. There are a few weirdo's out there who feel that the zombies are real and "Need" to have 10K plus rounds to fight them off. If someone wants their brass to be beautiful before the next time they get it dirty again, then why judge. Yes we all know that it has no impact on functionality, but hey to each his own. Back to hobbies.... Let's take RC airplanes for example. Generally speaking do people buy one of these planes, tape it together, throw a motor in it, and go flying? Nope! They buy a kit, meticulously put the plane together making sure everything is perfect. They buy lots of little accessories like paint, electronics, propellers, fuel, boxes to put the plane on, etc. Then after all that, they make a pilot to "Fly" the plane with an authentic period costume and sunglasses. Do you ever actually see the pilot when it is in the air? Probably not. But hey! It looks cool! And if you want to make a replica of the Red Baron, then by god make his scarf freaking awesome!!!! Point being, if you want to make every single round to absolute, beautiful, perfection then so be it. If I have 1K rounds of twice fired loaded ammo, and someone else has 1K rounds of twice fired ammo that is bright and shiny, we still have 2K rounds of AMMO that we can go have fun with and make fun of that weirdo preparing for that zombie thing...

 

[tsm]

Good answer. If you like shiny brass, make shiny brass. If that's not important to you, then don't. It's a hobby, not a contest!

 

[Cerberus]

The lead scare is way, way over blown. People get lead exposure every day, it's natural in our soil and water, and have survived largely the same for thousands of years.

By the time any kid is old enough to actually be allowed to be anywhere near reloading equipment and explosive components a standard hand washing with quality hand cleaner is more than sufficient to keep everything at a healthy level.