Reloading noob

[theturtle06]

So after going shooting this weekend I've decided that it's counterproductive for me to keep shooting factory ammo. I love to shoot, but can't shoot enough without spending a bunch of money, Money is something I unfortunately do not have enough of. I hear that's a common problem among other people who like to shoot!

I burned through $50 of ammo in less than an hour and can't keep doing that. I realize that the initial investment into a reloading station is somewhat substantial but I like to get my money's worth out of things so the price I can live with. I watched a couple videos on youtube of a Dillon XL650 station and while I haven't really looked at any other videos it seems like a (relatively) foolproof and reliable system. I however am not too eager to have to buy dies and other equipment on top of that rather large pricetag. The Square B is looking a little more appealing and for the forseeable future I will only be purchasing .45 ACP guns, so the modularity of the XL650 may not be necessary for me. Is there much of a difference between the XL and the Square B?

I have also found here that Dillon stuff comes highly regarded - but is there a particular brand that you guys would suggest?

 

[shibumiseeker]

Not only is it a bad idea to jump into reloading buying the highest end equipment, it's unnecessarily expensive too.

$150 can get you your first 100 rounds of pistol loaded, including components.

The first thing you need to do is buy a reloading manual. Read it. Do this before you buy gear.

Then buy a single stage press with dies. You can get this as a kit. Lee is the best value for the money. Don't worry that this is money thrown away, even if you go with more expensive gear later you can always use a single stage press for a number of things. I have a progressive, a turret, and three single stage presses and use them all.

The reason you should start with a single stage press is so you can learn the process, one step at a time. It's much harder to understand what is going on at each station with a progressive press when you are first starting out. As you learn, you'll figure out what things you need to speed up the process, or make it more accurate.

 

[theturtle06]

So on a single stage you just run through the "stations" like on the Dillon machines by swapping out dies?

I watched a few videos on the Dillon presses and didn't have too much trouble following what was going on, but you do present a couple things I obviously hadn't even thought of.

 

[super38]

Not only is it a bad idea to jump into reloading buying the highest end equipment, it's unnecessarily expensive too.

$150 can get you your first 100 rounds of pistol loaded, including components.

The first thing you need to do is buy a reloading manual. Read it. Do this before you buy gear. Never use just one manual for reloading, always compare (humans wrote these - so there are mistakes.)

Then buy a single stage press with dies. You can get this as a kit. Lee is the best value for the money. Don't worry that this is money thrown away, even if you go with more expensive gear later you can always use a single stage press for a number of things. I have a progressive, a turret, and three single stage presses and use them all.

The reason you should start with a single stage press is so you can learn the process, one step at a time. It's much harder to understand what is going on at each station with a progressive press when you are first starting out. As you learn, you'll figure out what things you need to speed up the process, or make it more accurate.

Buy a quality single stage and you won't regret it. Great way to start but you will use it forever for one thing or another.

Super38

 

[shibumiseeker]

So on a single stage you just run through the "stations" like on the Dillon machines by swapping out dies?

I watched a few videos on the Dillon presses and didn't have too much trouble following what was going on, but you do present a couple things I obviously hadn't even thought of.

Yep. You run each stage in batches. It takes a little time to swap out the dies, but if you are running a batch of a couple hundred at a time it doesn't really add that much more time. I can reload about 50 rounds in an hour with one single stage press. Add another single stage press and I can do about 80 rounds in an hour.

 

[theturtle06]

Thank you two for your help. I usually go by the mantra of buying the best I can afford and if I pinched pennies I could get something like a Dillon. But it looks like it would make more sense to just get a cheaper one first - gives me more $$$ for components and in turn more time at the range.

 

[x10]

Thank you two for your help. I usually go by the mantra of buying the best I can afford and if I pinched pennies I could get something like a Dillon. But it looks like it would make more sense to just get a cheaper one first - gives me more $$$ for components and in turn more time at the range.

Stop, you had a great idea to begin with, don't let people talk you out of the Dillon progressives,

You can use a 650 as a single stage until you learn the ropes, Just don't fill the primer tube and the case feeder

get a lee auto prime and get the feel for feel of primers, run one case through at a time and get the feel for each station,

A single stage press is a handy tool to have around but it does not replace the 650.
I agree that one day you will probably end up with a single stage but if you start with a single stage press and if you have kids or other responsibilities trying to single stage in any form of volume is myth,

After you get the single stages down and learn the flow of the press you will move into high volume, Reloading is not for someone without patience and some technical skills, there is a lot of feedback through sound, vibration, and feel from the press. You can learn that withing 200 rounds of running one through at a time, then you can start thinking progressively

Don't buy into the lie that accurate ammo can't be made on a progressive press. It depends you and your attention to detail.

Good luck but IMO you were right to look at the dillon progressive, the major diff between the 2 presses as far as things go is speed (there's others but if your buying from dillon it doesn't matter). The SDB doesn't throw out a primer everytime you crank the handle it only replaces the primer when the case takes one away and is a good press but when it comes right down to it if you want to make a bunch of quality ammo fast then the 650 is the way to go

Stick to your guns

 

[AllenM]

Stop, you had a great idea to begin with, don't let people talk you out of the Dillon progressives,

You can use a 650 as a single stage until you learn the ropes, Just don't fill the primer tube and the case feeder

get a lee auto prime and get the feel for feel of primers, run one case through at a time and get the feel for each station,

A single stage press is a handy tool to have around but it does not replace the 650.
I agree that one day you will probably end up with a single stage but if you start with a single stage press and if you have kids or other responsibilities trying to single stage in any form of volume is myth,

After you get the single stages down and learn the flow of the press you will move into high volume, Reloading is not for someone without patience and some technical skills, there is a lot of feedback through sound, vibration, and feel from the press. You can learn that withing 200 rounds of running one through at a time, then you can start thinking progressively

Don't buy into the lie that accurate ammo can't be made on a progressive press. It depends you and your attention to detail.

Good luck but IMO you were right to look at the dillon progressive, the major diff between the 2 presses as far as things go is speed (there's others but if your buying from dillon it doesn't matter). The SDB doesn't throw out a primer everytime you crank the handle it only replaces the primer when the case takes one away and is a good press but when it comes right down to it if you want to make a bunch of quality ammo fast then the 650 is the way to go

Stick to your guns

I second this! do not buy a single stage to load ammo for a semi auto pistol if you time has any value to you what so ever.
Loading pistol ammo on a single stage is way more expensive than buying it in a store.
Now the only thing I differ on is I would not talk you out of a Dillion if you have the money But I saved some bucks and bought a Hornady LnL progressive and do not regret that at all.

Once again if you want to load pistol ammo do not go single stage

 

[super38]

If you can get the progressive press by all means get that, especially if the point is to make ammo fast and the real hobby is shooting!

Me, I'd rather be on the range shooing, than at home loading!

Super38

 

[DHolder]

I agree with X10 and AllenM, you stated you want to make a lot of boolits, and a progressive is the way to do that. You can still make quality, but as a bonus you will get done much faster.

I still use a single stage but I am not concerned about having several hundred rounds ready for a FNS, IDPA or bowling pin shoot every week, the reloading is just as much a hobby as the shooting.

Good luck, see you here, keep us posted!!

 

[Eddie]

The first thing you need to do is buy a reloading manual. Read it. Do this before you buy gear.

Lots of good advice in this thread, but this is the real nugget. Do this.

 

[XtremeVel]

Didn't catch how much and how often you would like to shoot. All I caught was you shot over $ 50.00 in less than an hour. I don't know if a progressive would fit your needs if you only plan on shooting the equivalent of $ 50.00 worth of factory ammo once a month. (Thats not much considering todays prices). Once you have a better idea how many rounds you would like to load in a week / month , and read some more, the answer will be clearer to you. Reloading does save much money, but componets right now aren't cheap either.

 

[Redemption]

+10 on the going with Dillon. A 550 was my first reloader and I'm so glad that I went with it. Why not buy it first when it is what you will aspire to later anyway?

 

[42769vette]

i use a single stage, but the way it sounds you and i reload for diffrent reasons. i reload to make my ammo as best i can and i dont load for bulk. for me a single stange works fine.

it sounds like you want to reload for bulk. not that you dont want/need quality ammo, but in a 45 acp i doubt you want to take all the extra time i do. i could be wrong. so for you i would recomend a dillion 550. it just seems we have a diffrent goal. not that there is anything wrong with your goal. i am acutally wanting to get another press to do 5.56 9mm 45acp. if i got a diffrent press it would a dillion 550. reloading for a ar is a pita on a single stage press. in a few minutes ive shot up hours of work

 

[Nayls47]

Dillon SD is the way to go if you don't already have reloading equipment and you are planning to only load pistol ammo. It comes with a set of dies already setup. You will however need a powder scale and a primer flip tray. I have both style presses but the Dillon makes way more ammo. The Dillon SD says 400 per hour. I don't get that many because someone would have to fill the primer tubes for me. If you get to the point where you want to cast your own bullets you'll be down to about $2.10 a box. (primers $.03 ea. Powder $.012 ea.) Now you can shoot!!

 

[Chance]

Go visit someone that loads....

I would suggest finding someone close that reloads and go see the process. I'm sure there are several that would help you out. Progressives are fast and if you are not going to change it between calibers that's better. I have used a single stage for 25 years and find it better for me to batch shells through the different stages. I do use progressive loaders for shotgun shells and can tell you that if one messes up in the cycle of a progressive press you usually have to remove all casings from the cycle and start over. Either way, it's your choice. DO NOT buy components from the chain stores like GM, etc.. That won't save you much. There are many places locally and on-line to get better prices.

 

[MeltonLaw]

Umm no one has offered the compromise between the full progressive and the single stage press, that being the turret press. With a turret press you get to learn/feel each step of the process but do not need to continually change out dies. Especially if you buy extra turrets.

 

[antsi]

I would suggest finding someone close that reloads and go see the process.

This is a good thought. If you are a visual learner or a hands on learner you will get a lot more out of seeing stuff actually happening. You still need the manual (that was great advice, too) but reading the manual will be more meaningful to you when you have some idea what they are talking about.

Umm no one has offered the compromise between the full progressive and the single stage press, that being the turret press.

Yeah, I was thinking too that the Lee single stage and the Dillon 650 are kind of opposite ends of the spectrum. There is a lot of middle between those two. A turret press would be one option. I have a Dillon 550, which is progressive but not as automated as the 650. I have never felt that the 550 was too slow or too time consuming.

I've seen a couple of 550's for sale here on INGO lately; if you could pick up one used you'd be that much ahead. I would have no hesitation about buying Dillon stuff on the used market.

 

[theturtle06]

Stop, you had a great idea to begin with, don't let people talk you out of the Dillon progressives,

You can use a 650 as a single stage until you learn the ropes, Just don't fill the primer tube and the case feeder
I am grossly simplifying this I know, but just from watching the videos I feel pretty comfortable with the basics. It seems pretty straightfoward - load up all the components, run some rounds through, and weigh the powder every few rounds. Measure 8 times and cut once. Maybe I am overlooking some key elements?


get a lee auto prime and get the feel for feel of primers, run one case through at a time and get the feel for each station,

A single stage press is a handy tool to have around but it does not replace the 650.
I agree that one day you will probably end up with a single stage but if you start with a single stage press and if you have kids or other responsibilities trying to single stage in any form of volume is myth,

No responsibilities other than work, really. Eventually I was planning on getting the good stuff - hadn't even thought about the over-time cost of having to upgrade.


After you get the single stages down and learn the flow of the press you will move into high volume, Reloading is not for someone without patience and some technical skills, there is a lot of feedback through sound, vibration, and feel from the press. You can learn that withing 200 rounds of running one through at a time, then you can start thinking progressively

I really enjoy what some would call tedious stuff - I always liked writing out my math problems for example and having them all lined up perfectly showing every single step I did. I feel that reloading could be a very relaxing and cost effective hobby


Don't buy into the lie that accurate ammo can't be made on a progressive press. It depends you and your attention to detail.

What do you mean myth of inaccurate ammo on a progressive? Why would a single stage be more precise?

Good luck but IMO you were right to look at the dillon progressive, the major diff between the 2 presses as far as things go is speed (there's others but if your buying from dillon it doesn't matter). The SDB doesn't throw out a primer everytime you crank the handle it only replaces the primer when the case takes one away and is a good press but when it comes right down to it if you want to make a bunch of quality ammo fast then the 650 is the way to go

Stick to your guns

Lots of good advice in this thread, but this is the real nugget. Do this.

Didn't catch how much and how often you would like to shoot. All I caught was you shot over $ 50.00 in less than an hour. I don't know if a progressive would fit your needs if you only plan on shooting the equivalent of $ 50.00 worth of factory ammo once a month. (Thats not much considering todays prices). Once you have a better idea how many rounds you would like to load in a week / month , and read some more, the answer will be clearer to you. Reloading does save much money, but componets right now aren't cheap either.

I have been to the range the last 3 weekends since I have got my pistol and the only thing stopping me from shooting more was a lack of ammo. I will fire every last round I have on a range visit. Put at least 75 rounds out and this last weekend ~150

This is a good thought. If you are a visual learner or a hands on learner you will get a lot more out of seeing stuff actually happening. You still need the manual (that was great advice, too) but reading the manual will be more meaningful to you when you have some idea what they are talking about.

I am a very quick learner both visually and even moreso hands on. The videos I found on youtube seemed to give me a good idea of what I would be getting involved in. I have a manual on the way


Yeah, I was thinking too that the Lee single stage and the Dillon 650 are kind of opposite ends of the spectrum. There is a lot of middle between those two. A turret press would be one option. I have a Dillon 550, which is progressive but not as automated as the 650. I have never felt that the 550 was too slow or too time consuming.

I've seen a couple of 550's for sale here on INGO lately; if you could pick up one used you'd be that much ahead. I would have no hesitation about buying Dillon stuff on the used market.

Wow, lots of replies and food for thought. Thank you to all the replies and a big thanks to SSGDAD who has offered to show me the basics hands on.

 

[x10]

So many questions and answers your a good study I'll do my best

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You can use a 650 as a single stage until you learn the ropes, Just don't fill the primer tube and the case feeder
I am grossly simplifying this I know, but just from watching the videos I feel pretty comfortable with the basics. It seems pretty straightfoward - load up all the components, run some rounds through, and weigh the powder every few rounds. Measure 8 times and cut once. Maybe I am overlooking some key elements?

The only thing your missing is when the brass forms and is worked there is a distictive feel to every process and when you get a case with a flaw and the case cracks or crumples during an operation it really helps to run a 100 rounds through to see what the die feels like, Also the dillon Powder meas. is pretty good, I have went to a powder check die just because it makes me feel good but the reason on the 650 to hand seat primers if your going to "single" stage them is the primer system discards unsused primers and I dont like handling primers with my hands because of the possiblity of my sweaty greasy fingers getting on the primer compound.


=======================================

What do you mean myth of inaccurate ammo on a progressive? Why would a single stage be more precise?

If you talk to some guys they will tell you that progressive press' are not stiff and precise enough to load "match" quality ammo this was probably true in 1968 but the new presses resize very well with very little deviation between rounds, In pistol ammo this is not as big of a factor in long range rifle ammo, I load all my rifle ammo on a 550 and have shot very well over the years, When I was trying to keep up with fclass 1k yard shooting I made sure my brass and components were top class, I made sure my die settings were perfect but I set there and cranked them out on a progressive press, I was able to clean 5-600 yd and shoot in the 180's at 1k and the ammo was not the hold up I was still trying to learn when it got to be too much time and effort to keep up with the schedule

You've had a lot of data thrown at you here, for Pistol the sdb or the 650 are good choices, I used a sdb for about 10 years and it did a great job but my biggest mistake was not buying a 650 the day it hit the market, with prep work and a son to load primers for me I can honestly knock out 1200 rounds / hour on the 650 and its good consistent ammo. If you get into shooting action matches a day of 400 rounds is not unheard of, I shot a match that should have took 150ish rounds that ended up taking over 320 because of range problems. It happens, and having to suffer through buying ammo or some slow means of reloading would really hurt my freedom to shoot when and how much I want