Question for the women -- gun show incident

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  • Bruenor

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    Today I took a lady from my church small group to the 1500 gun show. The last time she shot anything was about 17 years ago in high school. She wants to get a handgun for self protection, mainly inside her house, but the intent of today was really just to reintroduce her to the world of firearms.

    Now here's some background. She's probably around 6 feet tall, and her hands are larger than mine (she used to be a piano player, and you can tell from the reach of her fingers). Now I would say that the first rule of picking out a handgun is it has to feel comfortable in your hands. If it's too big and you can't get a good hold on it, or if it's too small and is too uncomfortable in your hands, I say it's not a good fit for you. That in mind, my plan for the day was to show her as many types/styles of handguns as possible, let her handle them, and see what felt right to her.

    So we're going through the show, and make it into the second room. By this time she's held probably two dozen guns of all types and calibers. We get down to the end of the row we're in, and a guy behind the table asks if he can help her. When she says that she's looking for a self defense piece for the home, what do you think he says? He tells her, "You need a revolver," and proceeds to point towards the little .38 special at the table. He goes on to explain that the revolver would be better than a semiauto for her because it's less complicated, has less parts that could break, and is safer to own and use.

    After he's done talking to her, she walks away from the table to where I've moved to. She basically said that she felt that he was talking to her as if she was an idiot. I say that some people will tell all women that the only gun they should have is a revolver because they think that a semiauto is too complicated for a woman, and that I was sorry that we ran into that sexist man.

    Now, maybe this guy just likes revolvers, but what happened next kills that possibility. Shortly after my friends conversation with the guy, I saw the man speaking to an older gentleman, who also wanted a gun for self defense. He was pointed over to the Glocks.

    So I'm wondering if the women on this board have experienced similar situations? Do you get treated as if you don't know anything, and couldn't possibly handle X handgun? What do you think of this story?

    By the way, by the end of the show, do you know what handgun my friend liked the most? The 1911 style .45.
     

    IndyBeerman

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    After he's done talking to her, she walks away from the table to where I've moved to. She basically said that she felt that he was talking to her as if she was an idiot. I say that some people will tell all women that the only gun they should have is a revolver because they think that a semiauto is too complicated for a woman, and that I was sorry that we ran into that sexist man.

    Now, maybe this guy just likes revolvers, but what happened next kills that possibility. Shortly after my friends conversation with the guy, I saw the man speaking to an older gentleman, who also wanted a gun for self defense. He was pointed over to the Glocks.

    If memory serves me correct I think a friend of Annie's had the same exact thing done to her while Annie was with her by two NRA instructors, may have to look for the link, if I find it, I'll post the link.

    Here's the link to Ticked by Annie: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/women_and_firearms/46933-ticked.html#post509412

    BTW, I do think the alot of men out there are sexist when it comes to female handling semi auto, I say what fits their hand and shoot the best is good to go for them. After all they are the one who has to hold and fire it.
     
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    Joe Williams

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    1911s are too complicated for women :D I've loved saying that ever since Annie posted her story.

    What your friend ran into today is still far to common in the gun world. Many men cannot deal with the intrusion into what they regard as a man's territory. They just cannot help but look down on women. Cold hard facts are, women are the fastest growing segment of the shooting industry, and we need to get more. Men will just have to adapt. As for us, after a couple particularly unpleasant experiences in gun stores my wife dealt with, she is nearly always the first to sample a new place to see how she's treated. If she's treated badly we go elsewhere. Thankfully, positive experiences have FAR outweighed negative ones.

    All that said, there are many people, me among them, who recommend revolvers to a beginning shooter. I'm a huge fan of revolvers, and they are easy to learn to use and shoot well, and can be trusted almost without fail. However, snubbies are an expert's gun, not a beginners gun. Snubbies are some of the hardest guns to truly master, but many recommend them anyway. When I recommend a revolver, I recommend a full sized 3"-4" gun. Still, if she likes the 1911, there's absolutely no reason she can't learn to shoot with it. My wife LOVES hers, though it wasn't actually the gun she learned with.

    CathysBirthday2009023.jpg


    Cathywithnotsohidden1911.jpg
     

    Indecision

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    When we went looking for Adrenaline, we never even looked at revolvers. She wanted a semi, specifically an XDM after shooting it. But settled on an LCP for a combination of concealabily, price, and quality. We both felt that it was the best overall value for our purposes than than the Walther PPS, Sig P238 or Keltec P3AT. She'll still get an XDM for a range gun and to carry sometimes. Through all of our looking at all of the gun shops we went to, the only comment was a matter of factual "Make sure you can work the slide because some women struggle with it." Overall experience was great. This was all when I was with her as well though. If she has had a negative experience since then shopping alone, it's unbeknownst to me.

    She did struggle with racking it a bit, but this made it almost easy for her.Cornered Cat - Rack the Slide
     

    Bill of Rights

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    I am embarrassed to say that I did something kind of similar yesterday... A gentleman and his lady were at the INGO table and in offering a card with our address on it, I offered it to him, belatedly realizing I was ignoring her. I apologized and offered her one also, but I still realized at that moment that I'd done something I have always :rolleyes: when I've seen described.

    I'd like to say it was because he was closer to the table and she was standing behind him, but I can't honestly say I know that to be true.

    I hope they both join here. She was gracious (if perhaps a little uncomfortable with the attention) about it, and I appreciate that.

    I can only say that I regret and will endeavor to not repeat this faux pas.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     
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    Jun 21, 2009
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    In a fog
    +1 to BoR for realizing his gaff. :D

    +1 to Bruenor for taking the lady to the 1500.

    This happens all the time. Just a couple of weeks ago, I took a gun to a local gun store to be worked on and was ignored by most of the counter help for 15 minutes. The guy I stood by was talking car parts with the guy behind a counter :dunno:. Like Joe and Cathy, I don't go back if they don't treat me right the first time.
    That being said, I think many women on this site have had similar experiences. I was told revolver at first (not my preference). I'm sure there are a lot of women who love revolvers, and that's great. But if it is my weapon, I have to be comfortable with it.
    More women are wanting to protect themselves. I don't have data, but from talking to friends, more are interested in guns than ever before. Our $$$ spends like everyone else. Gun store owners need to realize this and welcome women in the store. I went to a couple stores that have women as counter staff. :yesway: They are aware of a changing clientel and are doing something about it.
    Bottom line, most women have run into those experiences like you encountered, but that doesn't mean that it deters women from guns. You can see that by the amount of women who post on this site. I hope you continue to encourage her to get the weapon of HER choice, and take a class. Knowledge is power. Don't forget to tell her to sign up on :ingo:.
    I have found a lot of support from my Sisters on this site.
     

    Indecision

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    Yeah, there's a girl that works at the shop next to our house. Adrenaline is trying to get a new job and gun shops are definately on the list. She's OCing till she gets her CC permit.
     

    Scutter01

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    Spasmo and I were in a gun store once that tried to pull that. We politely thanked them for the suggestion and went to a different store.
     

    Pami

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    All that said, there are many people, me among them, who recommend revolvers to a beginning shooter. I'm a huge fan of revolvers, and they are easy to learn to use and shoot well, and can be trusted almost without fail. However, snubbies are an expert's gun, not a beginners gun. Snubbies are some of the hardest guns to truly master, but many recommend them anyway. When I recommend a revolver, I recommend a full sized 3"-4" gun. Still, if she likes the 1911, there's absolutely no reason she can't learn to shoot with it. My wife LOVES hers, though it wasn't actually the gun she learned with.
    The point is that you recommend them to a beginning shooter, not specifically to women. There's a difference in how it's presented, and it's a HUGE difference.

    When we were shopping for my first handgun, I was *extremely* offended by the idea that I was too stupid to handle a semi-auto and that a revolver would be much easier for me to manipulate. I think the exact phrasing was "There are less controls on a revolver, so there is less to remember." So of course, I started looking at the most complicated guns I could find and came home with a SIG Mosquito: DA/SA semi-auto .22 [read: FTF every other round and picky about ammo] with all sorts of levers [it not only had a mag release and decocker, but a safety lever, too!].

    Now that I've put more than a few thousand rounds through several pistols through several different trainings and practice sessions, I can see the value of having a "less complicated" pistol. However, I did remark to Lars yesterday that I was "too stupid" to operate a revolver: I can't figure out where to put my thumbs because the "thumbs high" position is permanently etched into my brain. :):
     

    Bill of Rights

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    ...I was *extremely* offended by the idea that I was too stupid to handle a semi-auto and that a revolver would be much easier for me to manipulate. I think the exact phrasing was "There are less controls on a revolver, so there is less to remember."...

    I'm surprised you didn't correct the numbnuts: "That would be 'fewer' controls, thankyouverymuch." :lmfao:

    Blessings,
    Bill
     

    indykid

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    There are many guys out there who can't fathom a female who can handle a firearm. My daughter and I were helping a friend at the 1500 a while back. My friend is a Kimber dealer and had several out for display. My daughter got discusted when people asked her to get me to show them a pistol. She got so angry at one guy who really was rude to her, that when he asked her to get me to show him the pistol, she told him she could show it to him, but one piece at a time. She then proceded to disassemble that Kimber so fast you almost couldn't see her hands move. She then asked him which part he would like to see first.

    It is a shame that some guys are like that. Some truly want to help when someone asks for a firearm specific to self protection at home. Granted a revolver would be the simplest, for male or female since it is a pure point and shoot, and usually jam-proof. On the other hand there are many DAO pistols with no safety to fumble with, and are 100% reliable.
     

    redneckmedic

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    I would recommend revolver to a woman who was casually browsing and said she was looking for a gun for self-defense also. Call me sexist if you want to put a superficial label on it if you want. Most women that I have encountered have difficulty addressing a few aspects of a semi-auto. That includes gals at ranges test firing or shooting BF's guns. Gals at stores working the guns, and family members/friends shooting mine. Roll the dice, he is a salesman and probably went with an educated guess; looking for a SD gun (prob her first) with a man (prob for support, and she was), open to dealer suggestions. If she was well versed in fire arms that conversation prob have gone differently on her side and she prob would have known what she was looking for. I can easily see why someone would jump to sexist, but don't be so quick to judge just because a sales person made a suggestion. ALSO REMEMBER... Most gals also aren't cut from the same stock we have here at INGO either.
     

    kludge

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    Most people who want a gun for self defense in the home aren't gun people.

    And in most cases I would recommend a revolver. Regradless of sex.

    Not because they are easier to use, but because those people aren't going to train.

    If you ARE going to train, I would almost always recommend a semi-auto.

    And for home defense I would not recommend a snub-nose for anyone.
     

    JetGirl

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    And in most cases I would recommend a revolver. Regradless of sex.
    That ^ is very different than this:
    When she says that she's looking for a self defense piece ... He tells her, "You need a revolver," ... Shortly after my friends conversation with the guy, I saw the man speaking to an older gentleman, who also wanted a gun for self defense. He was pointed over to the Glocks.
     

    Boilers

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    When I first went to the Indy 1500, I went in wanting a MACHINE GUN!
    Came out with a lot more questions than going in. :)

    But, most everyone there suggested a revolver as my first pistol.

    So, before buying I took NRA Basic Pistol. Guess what they start you out with? A revolver.

    I see no issue with this train of thought.
     

    gage

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    It doesn't matter

    I don't think it matters but I'm not sensitive about what dealers/men etc think what is proper. Once a mind is set on an idea it all depends on how bad you want it. There's no harm in having people underestimating your knowledge skills (regardless of your sex etc). It's easy to tell if the seller is treating you like an individual...plenty out there and those are the ones getting my business. Better to dismiss the others and move along then to spend your time trying to figure out some folks or being sensitive to opinions. Know what you want and go after it.
     
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