Just out of curiosity, if I were to wander into the ISIS/religion thread, do you think I might find things a bit harsher to Islam then what you've taken offense to here as disparaging Christianity?
This strikes me through the heart, for I am guilty
Just out of curiosity, if I were to wander into the ISIS/religion thread, do you think I might find things a bit harsher to Islam then what you've taken offense to here as disparaging Christianity?
Would astrophysics be a better metaphor?
To my understanding everything physical is finite, so any metaphor I offer will fail at some point.
God knew you hated me. Re-read the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus goes beyond our actions and attacks our motives and state of mind.
OK, now we get to disagree.
your touching on what has been called "Revealed Truth"The scientist is right. There is no test now that can prove how all the 'particles that made up the big bang' (poetic license granted. big bang thought to be energy from which paricles 'condensed' as things cooled off) came into existence but it just doesn't interfere with my forming testable hypotheses from accepted science, testing them and acting on the results. Its truly not important. But if you want to assert that all the particles have always been here and always will be, as I've said before you are being proven wrong daily in labs all over the world. You keep thinking that experimental uncertainty is some kind of sword through the heart of a hypothesis, slaying the beast; but it just isn't so. And your assertion that 'There is no test that could ever be conceived to prove how all the particles that made up big bang came into existence/always existed.' is a falacy, unless you can scan the entire set of tests for the theory of the big bang that humans might possibly conceive. Can you?
your touching on what has been called "Revealed Truth"
the idea that (for example) my daughter is in second grade and is beginning the multiplication table. I can't help her with her homework and start teaching her Differential Calculus, she is not ready for it.
In the same way Moses was I'm sure an intelligent man but didn't have an understanding of Quantum Chromodynamics.
Revealed Truth is the thought that as we progress, God reveals more and more as we can handle it. And just enough to keep us on the right track and want more. What Moses did know is that God created it, and Genesis 1 is written in generalities as to not be wrong but not be complete. Why? Because it wasnt important. The Bible is not meant to be scientific. It is a book about humans, that is why creation is one chapter and the rest is about.........us.
As my daughter grows and build a foundation in mathematics she will understand Calculus, in time. As we explore and research, study, hypothesize, test, we recieve more and more information (Truth)
remember that Quark Mechanics isn't a surprise to God Almighty, he designed it. We are just trying to figure it out, and as a parent watching his child work at a math problem, he is smiling.
Even at our frustrations
Would people be opposed to the idea of God if He had set Big Bang in motion exactly as science theorizes and then set back as a spectator and had absolutely nothing to do with the universe?
Would people be opposed to the idea of God if He had set Big Bang in motion exactly as science theorizes...
What I'm trying to get at is yes, it is possible for the finite to understand part, but not all, of the infinite.However we are back to can you truly understand something that you can only approach through metaphor? Or can you only say what God is not?
According to Jesus's own words, hatred in your heart is the same sin as the outward expression of it. (Matthew 5:21)Disagree? That's fine. I suspect there are a host of things we disagree on, religious and secular. I'm ok with that. I'm more concerned with actions.
If I hate you, but chose to treat you like a friend instead of acting on my hatred, did I sin? Or did I do what most all of us would consider good? Look beyond my hatred, refuse to act on it, and treat you as I'd want to be treated?
For Xtians, all fear of eternal punishment is gone. There's nothing I can do (or not do) to gain my way into Heaven. In Xty, there is no scale - that's a works based form of salvation. There's no way I can do enough good works to cover the sin. The work of Christ on the cross is the only work that can save us and that's enough to cover any sin imaginable.Are you only good because you fear an eternal punishment if you are not? Not hypothetical "they" but are YOU only good because of that fear? I doubt it. I'm sure you have feelings of connection with friends and family, and that radiates out to lesser feelings of connection to your community, etc. etc. If that fear is what you need to motivate yourself, then perhaps that is the best path for you, but I think you underestimate yourself. What's the term, virtuous pagans? We can separate "correct belief" and "correct practice" and get along quite well even if we don't share all the same beliefs.
Would people be opposed to the idea of God if He had set Big Bang in motion exactly as science theorizes and then sat back as a spectator and had absolutely nothing to do with the universe?
your touching on what has been called "Revealed Truth"
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Thank you for this frank admission. And yet, so many Creationists want it taught in our science classrooms. Thankfully, the SCOTUS has seen through their many ruses in this vein and have slapped them down for it time and again.The Bible is not meant to be scientific.
Only if all religions predicated on this truth admitted to genuine scientific inquiry into the acts of this God person. Including, and especially, if it leads to evidence that God didn't do it, but someone else did, or even that it never happened at all.Would people be opposed to the idea of God if He had set Big Bang in motion exactly as science theorizes and then sat back as a spectator and had absolutely nothing to do with the universe?
Only if all religions predicated on this truth admitted to genuine scientific inquiry into the acts of this God person. Including, and especially, if it leads to evidence that God didn't do it, but someone else did, or even that it never happened at all.
My "good deeds" are rooted in my love of Christ and desire to be more Christ-like and my devotion unto him. I desire to please him and therefore attempt to please him, not me, not my fellow man. It's out of that faith that works spring forth. I have faith that his way is best and therefore I try to follow them.
Because a materialistic/mechanistic universe brought about through the actions of a blind watch maker and absentee landlord, is still a materialistic/mechanistic universe. There is no after life. There is no system of control or coersion based on the watch maker's inscrutable desires.So you're ok with an intelligent designer so long as as "it" does not tell us how to live our lives? I hope you will see my sincerity in this post. It's not a "gotcha" question. I'm very curious.
Would people be opposed to the idea of God if He had set Big Bang in motion exactly as science theorizes and then sat back as a spectator and had absolutely nothing to do with the universe?