Possible Coup Underway In Turkey

[Alamo]

Middle East is geography, Persia is culture and ethinicity. Turkey used to be "Near East" until the west decided to lump them in with the Middle East.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

What will be interesting is if the rest of the country will follow the military leadership in this - the preservation of "democracy" in Turkey. Of course, the Turks voted Erdogan into office and have apparently supported his attempts to transition what was an aggressively secular democracy into a sharia theocracy ( or was he going for just an autocracy under a thin veil of Islam). Time will tell if Turkey will be another Egypt or if it will turn into another Lebanon - another former democracy which got taken over by the Islamics.

 

[jbombelli]

Middle East is geography, Persia is culture and ethinicity. Turkey used to be "Near East" until the west decided to lump them in with the Middle East.

How many years have you spent studying, specifically, the Middle East? If I'd said that in any of the papers I wrote in college, I'd have failed that paper. My profs for these classes were from Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar.

Where did you study this, Wikipedia?

 

[mrjarrell]

No. They aren't. Turkey is not the Middle East. The term "Middle East" applies to a very specific region, and neither Turkey nor Iran are countries therein. They are Persian.

Turkey is in Asia, not the ME, even though, (for political purposes) they are lumped into the region. The Turks are not Persian, though. They are a separate ethnic, linguistic and cultural group.

 

[Alamo]

It still amazes me that coups happen in relatively advanced nations.

Turkey was retrogressing very quickly to the middle eastern version of banana republic. Shawarma republic, maybe.

 

[mrjarrell]

p.s.

I'd love to be in NATO headquarters right now seeing everyone run about, as well as in the EU headquarters. No doubt the EU will be pulling for the Islamists, NATO will officially sit on its hands and call for calm, but if they have half-a-brain they will be rooting for the military to succeed. I'm sure they will do nothing useful. Aside from the American bases the US has, there is a NATO forward operating base for NATO AWACS, I wonder if any are deployed, and if they skedaddled.

I shudder to think what our current SecState and President Jarrett are going to come up with.

NATO's been through this before with Turkey. Wouldn't surprise me if they have a manual on it.

 

[jbombelli]

Turkey is in Asia, not the ME, even though, (for political purposes) they are lumped into the region. The Turks are not Persian, though. They are a separate ethnic and cultural group.

They're lumped in today because that's what the west always does. It rearranges borders for its own convenience.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Turkey isn't Middle East. It's Persian. A distinction lost on many, but it's an important one.

Lost on me, for sure. I thought Persia was simply Iran. Taught me something again.

 

[T.Lex]

Coups happen in almost every single nation in history. What's so amazing?

We have the opportunity to do it peacefully every 4 years (give or take).

I shudder to think what our current SecState and President Jarrett are going to come up with.

A speech. A speech with really good words. And hand motions, but not too many.

They're lumped in today because that's what the west always does. It rearranges borders for its own convenience.

Wonder if the Kurds will end up with some borders.

 

[Alamo]

Turkey is in Asia, not the ME, even though, (for political purposes) they are lumped into the region. The Turks are not Persian, though. They are a separate ethnic and cultural group.

The middle east is in Asia, except when you want to define it out by saying "Asia and the Middle East." The term came about when Europeans referred to the far off part (China etc) as "Far East," the middle section as "Middle East", and Turkey and environs as "Near East". For whatever reason "Near East" and "Far East got dropped around WWII and the lands formerly known as "Near East" merged with the rest of the Middle East for nomenclature. Turkey has always had the "pleasure" of being the gateway to the Middle East and Asia, but they if they are not Middle Eastern themselves, then they are European, and they most certainly are not European -- which the EU has not-so-subtly been telling them for years now.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The middle east is in Asia, except when you want to define it out by saying "Asia and the Middle East." The term came about when Europeans referred to the far off part (China etc) as "Far East," the middle section as "Middle East", and Turkey and environs as "Near East". For whatever reason "Near East" and "Far East got dropped around WWII and the lands formerly known as "Near East" merged with the rest of the Middle East for nomenclature. Turkey has always had the "pleasure" of being the gateway to the Middle East and Asia, but they if they are not Middle Eastern themselves, then they are European, and they most certainly are not European -- which the EU has not-so-subtly been telling them for years now.

This is fair, ME isn't a recognized continent.

 

[Alamo]

Lost on me, for sure. I thought Persia was simply Iran. Taught me something again.

The Turks have Persian influence, but then they have a lot of other influences. Again one of the "bennies" of being a gateway between regions. Not quite part of one, not quite part of another.

And yes the West draws lines for its convenience. So what.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Hey, I'm just watching. My international politics knowledge is confined to Europe, sub-Saharan Africa, and the Far East

 

[mrjarrell]

The middle east is in Asia, except when you want to define it out by saying "Asia and the Middle East." The term came about when Europeans referred to the far off part (China etc) as "Far East," the middle section as "Middle East", and Turkey and environs as "Near East". For whatever reason "Near East" and "Far East got dropped around WWII and the lands formerly known as "Near East" merged with the rest of the Middle East for nomenclature. Turkey has always had the "pleasure" of being the gateway to the Middle East and Asia, but they if they are not Middle Eastern themselves, then they are European, and they most certainly are not European -- which the EU has not-so-subtly been telling them for years now.

They are neither Middle Eastern or European, (for ethic purposes). The Turks are an Asiatic people who migrated into the area about the time of the Middle Ages. The Turkish language is East Asian, with some Indo-European that has snuck in over the ages. The Persians are Indo-European and migrated south to the Iranian region a long time ago. The Turks do not really like being called Middle Easterners and they're real particular about being called Arabs, (which they have in common with the Persians (Iranians). The Turks are a pretty distinct ethnicity and people.

 

[Alpo]

Asia, technically, starts at the Bosphorus. Everything on that side was called "The Orient" for much longer than any other terms that have been in use.

 

[Alamo]

...

A speech. A speech with really good words. And hand motions, but not too many.

,,.

No, they save speeches and hashtags for supporting our longterm allies. For Islamists, they crank up the war machine. See Syria, Libya. I'm afraid they will try to pull NATO in on the side of Erdogan, or at least threaten to kick Turkey out of NATO if the military wins.

 

[Alamo]

Hey, I'm just watching. My international politics knowledge is confined to Europe, sub-Saharan Africa, and the Far East

My "so what" was not for your comment, didn't make that clear Sorry.

 

[Alamo]

They are neither Middle Eastern or European, (for ethic purposes). The Turks are an Asiatic people who migrated into the area about the time of the Middle Ages. The Turkish language is East Asian, with some Indo-European that has snuck in over the ages. The Persians are Indo-European and migrated south to the Iranian region a long time ago. The Turks do not really like being called Middle Easterners and they're real particular about being called Arabs, (which they have in common with the Persians (Iranians). The Turks are a pretty distinct ethnicity and people.

Yes I agree that ethnically they are not "Middle Eastern" (which brings to mind Arabs, which POs the Persians/Iranians and the Turks), but geographically they are. Yes I think they have earned their own ethnicity, but like every thing else there are other influences.. The ones I knew didn't get too excited about the middle eastern thing, but they do like their own identity.


Alamo puts on his most innocent face: "Oh, so a doner is kind of a Turkish gyros, right?"
Turkish wife of one of my friends: "IT IS NOT A TURKISH GYROS!"

Anyway, I think Turkey will be better off the Turkish military succeeds.

 

[mrjarrell]

[h=2]Turkish military broadcasts on state TV amid coup reports[/h] An announcement on the Turkish state broadcaster TRT says that a curfew has been declared across Turkey and that airports are closed. The announcer says they are being made to read a statement by the military.
The statement promises a new constitution for the country and says that democracy and the secular rule of law had been undermined. Martial law has also been imposed, it adds.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara

 

[T.Lex]

First, I wonder if this wasn't precipitated in part by Erdogan's caving to Putin on the apology thing. If I'm a Turkish military leader, and my crew successfully shoots down a Russian plane in Turkish airspace, and my CINC APOLOGIZES for it? I think I'd be pissed.

Second, though, maybe it is just everything else going on, but I've got a bad feeling about this. Yeah, I'm familiar with the history (although not as familiar as some of you, clearly) so I see the pattern. I'm just not convinced yet that this is the same thing.

I hope you guys are right.