pistol carbine rifle system

[Cpt Caveman]

Ok so,say , the stuff has hit the fan folks , what kinda weapons do you wanna have? I've always figured having a main battle rifle,( AR-15 or some kinda 30ish caliber semi auto AK or whatever) a pistol caliber carbine and a handgun would make a pretty good weapons system.
I'm trying to pare down my rather hodge podge collection to a smaller more refined group of weapons that will be better suited to having to move in a hostile environment.
Any thoughts?

 

[rcuhljr]

PX4 storm would be a reasonable combo pistol + carbine. you'd even share mags. I enjoyed shooting the carbine the one time I had the privilege.

 

[wtfd661]

I have been thinking the .357 lever action and .357 revolver is a good combo, since it shoots both the .38 & .357 (both common rounds) makes it pretty versatile. Good round for both SD and hunting. Plus kinda has the John Wayne vibe thing going for it also

 

[Cpt Caveman]

I've been contemplating the Mech tech carbine conversion unit for either my existing 1911 or trading off the Colt and getting a g34 glock and getting the CCU for that. Of course I'm wanting to have the carbine and the handgun be of the same caliber and the same magazines if I can. So I guess I gotta decide whether I'm keeping the Colt or not.

 

[WETSU]

Say what you want about the Keltec sub 2000s, but they seem to run. I have however seen one slamfire full auto, out of battery. 2-3 shot bursts. Not good. Keltec made it right however.

With that said, I like the Keltec. The fact it takes Glock mags (for that particular model) is a plus. IMO.

Tell me, what are your thoughts behind Rifle, carbine and pistol? (rifle and pistol I get). How would you be deploying your carbine, what would it's mission be?

BTW, I do like the .357 revo and lever gun idea. Ols school. I'd run them and not feel neked.

 

[Zoub]

Since you are in the survival forum, IMHO, the one that makes the most sense is the Kel tec. It is the cheapest, compact, can share mags with your handgun of choice, 33rd Glock mags rock in them. Same way a revolver and lever gun can share ammo, sharing mags is good.

It does not replace a true carbine but better than a shotgun for a handout gun if shooter is a novice. They can shoot it and make hits easier and farther than with a handgun. Same can be said of an AR.

Storms are cats ass to shoot, AR based PCR's are a lot of work and expensive. After Kel tec's, lever guns in .44mag or .357 with a short barrel, like 16-18" are great, but heavy.

I have a Kel tec in a laptop case with mags for it and G19 and a few other goodies. Very portable and compact

 

[Cpt Caveman]

Wetsu My thoughts are: fight with the rifle til its exhausted , fight with the carbine til its exhausted then use your pistol to fight your way to more ammo for the other two.
The CX4 and PX4 use the same mags. They use the same kind as the 92 series pistols.
For around 1300 bucks you can have them both. Two LE trade in G19's from Keislers and a Mech Tech ccu would run you about $1465. Both setups would give you a pistol and a carbine that shot the same magazines.
Just gotta decide what I wanna get.

 

[Justus]

I have been thinking the .357 lever action and .357 revolver is a good combo, since it shoots both the .38 & .357 (both common rounds) makes it pretty versatile. Good round for both SD and hunting. Plus kinda has the John Wayne vibe thing going for it also

I considered the lever action/pistol combo too,
I changed my mind when I saw a few guys use them on a doomsday 3-gun course, reloading took forever.

 

[Justus]

The CX4 and PX4 use the same mags. They use the same kind as the 92 series pistols.

Did Beretta change something recently?
I thought the PX4 used a different mag than the CX4/92.

 

[longbow]

I did the lever action 357, 357 revolver deal for common ammo. Gives me a reason for 38 and 357 ammo and save some storage space...

 

[mike8170]

A few years back, my dad got into the be prepared mood, so he went to Bradis Guns and bought the Ruger P99 pistols, the 9mm carbines to go with them, and a couple of 870 police models. I honestly don't know the model number of the carbines. He figured that he would insure that each truck was loaded the same in case we had to bug out. I myself haven't seen them out of the safe for a few years, but I did enjoy the carbines. They were fun to plink around with when ammo was cheap.

 

[WETSU]

Capt. Caveman,

Okay gotcha. But it sounds like you are looking to buy a gun to solve an ammo supply issue. I hate to be a buzzkill (we all like more guns) but if your stated mission for the carbine was truely: run rifle dry, fight w/ carbine until dry and then go to pistol, wouldn't it just make more sense to have a big bag full o' rifle mags? $1000 sure would buy a lot of loaded rifle mags.

Would the carbine be something that you would have ON you during a running firefight? So it could be used as a back up-ie quickly?

Now with that said, there's nothing wrong with having another gun, in a pistol caliber. As others said, its easy for a second person to use. It could be used if your rifle went **** up, rather than run out of ammo. A tru back up. Its compact enough you cold hav eit in a BOB if needed. New guns are cool.

Am I tracking right here? I'm just trying to help you think it through. Mission dictates gear. Not the other way around.

 

[melensdad]

I've always figured having a main battle rifle,( AR-15 or some kinda 30ish caliber semi auto AK or whatever) a pistol caliber carbine and a handgun would make a pretty good weapons system.
. . .
Any thoughts?

Consider the Marlin Camp 9, used they can be had for about $425 to $450. They use the same magazine as S&W 59xx series pistols. Then buy a S&W 59xx series 9mm pistol. They are solid guns, prices vary by feature, but figure $300 to $500. It gives you commonality, easily found magazines, proven reliability, and reasonable economy in cost.

 

[Slow Hand]

Depending on your situation, I'd go for the .357 levergun/revolver or the Kel-Tec SUB2K/Glock combo. If it's more of a living off the land, I'd go for the .357, if it's more of a bug out and defned yourself, I'd probably say go for the semi-auto's. I have both and the Glock/SUB2K ride in my truck. The SUB2K is very compact, very reliable and accurate and easy enough to shoot that I scored some quick hits on IPSC targets out at 75 yards once having never shot it over 50 yards. I've got .40's and especially with the right load out of a 16" barrel, it'd easily take down a deer, feral dog or badguy. The .357's are good in that you can use a wide variety of ammo for either one. I've got some pretty stout 195gr loads that I shoot out of my Rossi carbine. Not fun out of the revolver, but they are easy shooting in the carbine. You can load down to wadcutter target loads and nearly .30/30 muzzle energy for hunting/bad guys. Plus, if you have a loading kit with you, you can save your brass easier and tailor loads to your specific needs. No magazines to lose for a revolver or levergun, as well. Slower to reload, but not really a problem if you are in a hunting situation. 16 well placed shots from your revolver/levergun will solve many problems, I'm sure!

As to prices, there are tons of used .357 revolvers out there. Leverguns are being made every day and while they are in high demand right now (still) due to the few year old hunting law change, they do turn up pretty often on the auction sites.

Nobody seems to be able to find any Kel Tec SUB2K's right now, but I somehow have three that use Glock 22 mags! Anyways, you can find a used Glock for around $400 and a SUB2K for around $300 So, you are looking at about half of what your prices are above. One bad thing about the CCU's for a defensive type of deal is that you have to have the pistol dissasmbled to use the carbine. You are stuck using one or the other. With the Kel Tec, you have a totally seperate gun that just happens to use the same mags and ammo. I've got a small chest rig in my truck that has six pistol mag pouches, giving me 90 rounds of ammo fo eaither the pistol or carbine. It's also got plenty of room to stuff in some 29 rounders as well, easily doubling the ammo capacity!
I've shto both my levergun and Kel Tec's quite a bit. Both are impressive and fun to shoot. I'd have a hard time deciding if I had to choose only one, but when I was deciding what kind of gun to get my son when he was born, I decided on a Marlin 1894 in .357. It's just too versatile of a gun! Plinking, Home defense, hunting, shooting sports, great all around gun!

Doug K

 

[Richard]

Beretta CX4 & PX4 combo, Marlin's Camp 9 carbine & a S&W 5906 or maybe an 9mm AR-15 & a Glock would be my top three choices on a carbine/pistol setup.

 

[Colt556]

If I had to choose I suppose I'd take a 7.62 battle rifle (M1A), AR15 Carbine, .22 rifle, 12ga shotgun, .357 revolver, .45 ACP and .22 pistol. Oh wait.... that's to many. LOL...

 

[Dr Falken]

I gotta say that I really like the idea of .357 pistol and lever gun. There is a lot more variety of loads and you don't have to worry about mags. I know that alot of guns are pretty reliable, but I think there is more inherent reliability in the mechanical cycling of those two systems. Yes, there are limitation, but as far as caliber/gun type, I think those two would get you pretty far.

 

[cosermann]

Every once in a while I give some thought to the whole pistol caliber carbine thing and come back to the same answer - I cannot justify it from a tactical/survival perspective. Sure, in Indiana they're nice to have for deer hunting, but for the sort of situation that started this thread (with "battle rifles" and all), they're not the most suitable firearm.

The modern pistol caliber lever actions will not mechanically maintain the rate of fire that one may need out of a "battle rifle". They're not designed for it. Regardless of how fast you can load it, the point of impact often drifts as they get hot, and the tolerances are designed for hunting accuracy, not shooting hot in a dirty environment. They're great for what they're designed for, but don't kid yourself.

Guns like the Kel-Tec and Beretta have more defensive potential, and can have magazine compatability with your sidearm, but a pistol cartridge is still a pistol cartridge, in spite of the extra performance the carbines will wring out of them. It will not perform like a real rifle cartridge at distance. And these guns have less hunting capability than the .357/44 lever actions.

So where does that leave us? Instead of carrying 3 guns, carry 2 guns (rifle and pistol) and take up with weight saved with mags/ammo.

My intention is not to bash pistol caliber carbines. They have a small niche. They're fun. I like them. They might get one by in some situations. I'm just saying they're not optimal for many scenarios.

 

[Richard]

Cosermann,

I agree with alot of what you had said, however can also see how having both my long gun & my hand gun chambered in the same caliber & feeding from the same magazines would be awful handy, from both a logistical & weight savings standpoint.

And while a pistol chambered carbine might not be ideal for *combat* scenarios, I think it would most certainly be enough for *self-defense* scenarios.

So I guess it boils down to: much like any other tool, make sure you pick the correct one for the job in which you intend to use it.

 

[Sailor]

If having a 9mm carbine will get you training more because the ammo is cheaper, then buy one.