Personal Defense Network: The perfect personal defense gun

[cosermann]

"The person who carries regularly today is very likely not a life-long gun enthusiast." - Really? I thought this was an interesting statement. The ONLY people I know who carry (what I would call) REGULARLY are gun people. The others carry sporadically at best, if they carry at all after buying their magic talisman. Even many gun people I know who ARE gun people don't carry REGULARLY. Non-gun people? Well, Rob is certainly drawing from a larger sample size than I am. So, I'll defer. Still, surprising to me nonetheless.

Another oddity to me is his 10+1 single stack desire. That's going to be a tall/long grip gun. It would seem to mitigate against his "carryability" criteria. I'm not sure it's even physically possible to stack 10 rounds of 9mm up in a handgun that's 5" or less in height. You've got the physical width of the cartridges stacked up, then you have to wrap a bit of magazine and pistol around them. As an example, the Kahr P9, a pretty efficient design, stacks 8+1 into a 5.08" tall package. Compared to, say, a 15+1 round G19 that's 4.99" tall. I guess it depends on what factor (or combination thereof) are most important to you with respect to concealability; i.e. length, height, width, and/or weight. According to a previous INGO poll, height and width seem to be the 2 primary factors around here - https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handguns/294432-most-critical-concealability-factor.html

 

[lovemachine]

"The person who carries regularly today is very likely not a life-long gun enthusiast." - Really? I thought this was an interesting statement. The ONLY people I know who carry (what I would call) REGULARLY are gun people. The others carry sporadically at best, if they carry at all after buying their magic talisman. Even many gun people I know who ARE gun people don't carry REGULARLY. Non-gun people? Well, Rob is certainly drawing from a larger sample size than I am. So, I'll defer. Still, surprising to me nonetheless.

Another oddity to me is his 10+1 single stack desire. That's going to be a tall/long grip gun. It would seem to mitigate against his "carryability" criteria. I'm not sure it's even physically possible to stack 10 rounds of 9mm up in a handgun that's 5" or less in height. You've got the physical width of the cartridges stacked up, then you have to wrap a bit of magazine and pistol around them. As an example, the Kahr P9, a pretty efficient design, stacks 8+1 into a 5.08" tall package. Compared to, say, a 15+1 round G19 that's 4.99" tall. I guess it depends on what factor (or combination thereof) are most important to you with respect to concealability; i.e. length, height, width, and/or weight. According to a previous INGO poll, height and width seem to be the 2 primary factors around here - https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handguns/294432-most-critical-concealability-factor.html

I thought the samething about the 10+1 single stack. The shield 9mm is 7-8 rounds, and taller than the Glock 26 with its 10 rounds.

A 10 round single stack would have to be pretty tall. I haven't held too many single stacks, but how woukd a tall single stack pistol compare to a regular double stack for concealed carry?

 

[gregkl]

I thought the samething about the 10+1 single stack. The shield 9mm is 7-8 rounds, and taller than the Glock 26 with its 10 rounds.

A 10 round single stack would have to be pretty tall. I haven't held too many single stacks, but how woukd a tall single stack pistol compare to a regular double stack for concealed carry?

Not sure but a 9mm 1911 full size holds 9 rounds in a standard mag. That should give you some kind of reference to how tall the pistol would have to be.

 

[VERT]

Not sure but a 9mm 1911 full size holds 9 rounds in a standard mag. That should give you some kind of reference to how tall the pistol would have to be.

Correct. You can buy 10 round mags for a full size 9mm 1911. Problem is the tenth round sort of nose dives into the feed ramp. 9mm has an ever so slight taper. My feeling is that a 10 round mag would have to be staggered a bit. I think what Rob is wanting is a slimmer grip that is also long enough to get all your fingers around

 

[gregkl]

Correct. You can buy 10 round mags for a full size 9mm 1911. Problem is the tenth round sort of nose dives into the feed ramp. 9mm has an ever so slight taper. My feeling is that a 10 round mag would have to be staggered a bit. I think what Rob is wanting is a slimmer grip that is also long enough to get all your fingers around

Yeah, I have heard that about the 10th round. I am only one small sample, but I have (5) 10 round mags for my 1911 and have shot close to 1000 rounds through them without one malfunction, knock on wood. The mag is a little longer and does stick out of the bottom of the magwell slightly though. So for carry, it may be getting a wee bit long...

Not that this has anything to do with what Rob wants, I just thought I'd mention it.

 

[bobzilla]

Just goes to show that a carry weapon is a very personal choice. His criteria work for him. While I agree with many of his points, there is no one gun that will work for everyone. I don't prefer a single stack and definitely not a striker fired weapon. To each his/her own.

Well said.

 

[rockhopper46038]

Correct. You can buy 10 round mags for a full size 9mm 1911. Problem is the tenth round sort of nose dives into the feed ramp. 9mm has an ever so slight taper. My feeling is that a 10 round mag would have to be staggered a bit. I think what Rob is wanting is a slimmer grip that is also long enough to get all your fingers around

Yeah, I have heard that about the 10th round. I am only one small sample, but I have (5) 10 round mags for my 1911 and have shot close to 1000 rounds through them without one malfunction, knock on wood. The mag is a little longer and does stick out of the bottom of the magwell slightly though. So for carry, it may be getting a wee bit long...

Not that this has anything to do with what Rob wants, I just thought I'd mention it.

Go with a straight walled .38SC or the minimally tapered over a longer length 9x23 in order to take advantage of the 10+1 single stack 1911 without "nose-diving".

 

[VERT]

Go with a straight walled .38SC or the minimally tapered over a longer length 9x23 in order to take advantage of the 10+1 single stack 1911 without "nose-diving".

But then it wouldn't be a gun chambered in 9mm. The advantage of 9mm is the availability of ammo or components.

 

[GNRPowdeR]

But then it wouldn't be a gun chambered in 9mm. The advantage of 9mm is the availability of ammo or components.

Capacity, availability, and cost of ammo / components is a contributing factor for me starting to leave my 45 1911 at home more often. I also hope to be helping train others in the art of "Low Speed / High Drag" in the near future, so becoming more proficient in the striker fired poly guns will also be helpful, IMO.

 

[Rob Pincus]

Glad you guys enjoyed the article and that it got some conversation going. Thinking about what gun you carry and why is the most important thing.

-RJP

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Glad you guys enjoyed the article and that it got some conversation going. Thinking about what gun you carry and why is the most important thing.

-RJP

Do you think horse nose rubbing could play any part in a future article?

 

[Rob Pincus]

Do you think horse nose rubbing could play any part in a future article?

Possibly... I am probably going to do some shooting on horseback in July. I'll try to work it in.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Possibly... I am probably going to do some shooting on horseback in July. I'll try to work it in.

 

[cedartop]

Adventure Time is everywhere.

 

[VERT]

why do I find the Rainbow Unicorn to be strangely appropriate to INGO? Maybe it is all the horse nose rubbing discussion.

 

[FreeFAL]

I think it makes sense to select the most powerful weapon that can be carried daily, concealed easily and shot well.

I can conceal a HK45 outside summer months just fine. G19 when I'm in my speedo.

 

[Birds Away]

Carry what you shoot best.

 

[VERT]

I think it makes sense to select the most powerful weapon that can be carried daily, concealed easily and shot well.

I can conceal a HK45 outside summer months just fine. G19 when I'm in my speedo.

Carry what you shoot best.

While I agree with the carry the biggest gun you can shoot well mentality, that is not always possible. I think what the article was trying to convey was the authors wish list for a pistol that offers the best compromise for concealability vs shootability. What I shoot best is a full size 1911 or full size Glock 34/35. Yes I can carry that but they get heavy. By strict definition they are what I should carry. But...a lightweight commander is lot easier on the spine. What I give up is some shootability. Further down the line is my J frame, who wants a day on the range with that thing?

I am a gun guy. I like guns. I am willing to buy guns. I will dress around my gun or compromise the gun itself to fit the situation. Many new to this lifestyle either won't, can't or don't know any better. So what ONE gun will meet most situations for the largest general group of people?

 

[GNRPowdeR]

Many new to this lifestyle either won't, can't or don't know any better. So what ONE gun will meet most situations for the largest general group of people?

From everything I've seen, heard, & done myself? I'd suggest either a Commander 1911, a Glock 19, an M&P, Ruger SR something, or a Springfield XD something... I have experience with each of these & have seen them in the hands of several others. Simply put? These work.

When working with newer shooters on determining their natural point of aim, I use three different blue guns (considering adding a fourth) and we typically can find something that works for them. I use the G19, the 1911 4" Commander, and the 4.25" M&P. Once we determine what points better, we can move forward with discussion of caliber & how to CC with what fits them better.

 

[STEEL CORE]

I carry a Glock-27 or a Glock-23, that replaced my Glock-19, that replaced my Sig 226, that replaced my Colt 1911, and the Smith and Wessons of days gone by.