+P ammo in a carry gun

[Amac91]

Just curious as to what barrel length people consider the minimum to have a real benefit of +P ammo? Since most people opt for shorter barrels in a CC gun, sticking with standard pressure to avoid the flash and recoil seems reasonable under 3.5" to me. Granted my new 6906 doesn't suffer from a recoil issue due to its all metal construction so I see no reason not to use +P in it. Thoughts? Specifically referring to 9mm but feel free to voice other caliber info too.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Or....buy the Speer Gold Dot Short Barreled stuff... Definitely optimized for short barrels!

But shorter barrel or not - there will still be an increase in velocity over standard pressure stuff.

Boom and recoil will also probably be higher.

More flash - maybe.

It's all about finding what works for "you" and whatnot.

 

[cosermann]

If your goal is simply adequate penetration and expansion in a defensive context, +P ammunition is not generally required in "duty length" barrels to achieve this (i.e. about 3.5" or more in 9/40, about 4" or more in .45). So, I don't think there's much, if any benefit, in the longer barrels.

OTOH, I see more benefit in shorter barrels if/when you need to get the velocity (that you lost by shortening the barrel) back up - so that the bullet performs as designed.

See "barrel length implications" note here ==>> Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

So, I don't generally start to think about +P loads (and/or possibly a lighter bullet) unless I'm significantly under 3.5" in 9/40, or 4" in .45, and even then there are some non-+P short barrel specific loads that work pretty well these days (as previously mentioned).

 

[NIFT]

On top of all that, there is no SAAMI specification for what constitutes "+P" or "+P+" or any other combination plusses and Ps. It is entirely whatever the manufacturer says. About the only safe assumption about +P ammunition is, if there is a non+P offering of the same ammo from the same manufacturer, the +P version will be somewhat hotter.

 

[wizard_of_ahs]

On top of all that, there is no SAAMI specification for what constitutes "+P" or "+P+" or any other combination plusses and Ps. It is entirely whatever the manufacturer says. About the only safe assumption about +P ammunition is, if there is a non+P offering of the same ammo from the same manufacturer, the +P version will be somewhat hotter.

And costlier

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

On top of all that, there is no SAAMI specification for what constitutes "+P" or "+P+" or any other combination plusses and Ps. It is entirely whatever the manufacturer says. About the only safe assumption about +P ammunition is, if there is a non+P offering of the same ammo from the same manufacturer, the +P version will be somewhat hotter.

Not true.

9x19, .38 Special, .45ACP, .38 Auto/Super, and .45 Colt all have SAAMI spec +p numbers.

SAAMI

Certainly not +p+ - that is indeed above and beyond SAAMI specifications.

 

[kiddchaos]

Sort of related...
Make sure the gun can handle it. Do not use +p in the DB9.
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhkHML6LZv4]

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I carry +P loads in my 3" 1911. Makes it hit as hard as a 5" and it already kicks like a mule so I really don't notice a difference.

 

[jgreiner]

Just curious as to what barrel length people consider the minimum to have a real benefit of +P ammo? Since most people opt for shorter barrels in a CC gun, sticking with standard pressure to avoid the flash and recoil seems reasonable under 3.5" to me. Granted my new 6906 doesn't suffer from a recoil issue due to its all metal construction so I see no reason not to use +P in it. Thoughts? Specifically referring to 9mm but feel free to voice other caliber info too.

I use +P in everything EXCEPT my S&W 66.

 

[Hiserman79]

+p in all my snubbies I want the extra punch. Louder bang is also effective in a self defense situation for shock factor IMHO

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

I have a .357 Ruger SP101. Can you get +P+ for .357 magnum? That could be amusing. Rather than shooting +p I am shooting fairly mild 110 gr. magnum loads from my snubby. after testing in wetpack I decided that full power .357's could be considered "unnecessary roughness". Couldn't a prosecutor make an issue out of your choice in firepower? I have had more than 1 officer ask me why I think I need such a powerful gun. (maybe because 12 gauge's are so hard to conceal?)

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I have a .357 Ruger SP101. Can you get +P+ for .357 magnum? That could be amusing. Rather than shooting +p I am shooting fairly mild 110 gr. magnum loads from my snubby. after testing in wetpack I decided that full power .357's could be considered "unnecessary roughness". Couldn't a prosecutor make an issue out of your choice in firepower? I have had more than 1 officer ask me why I think I need such a powerful gun. (maybe because 12 gauge's are so hard to conceal?)

A handgun is a pitiful fight stopper so there is basically no "overkill" in a self defense scenario besides one that jeopardizes innocent bystanders.

I would not recommend a .50bmg for home defense

As for a prosecutor in Indiana you don't have to worry about that if the shooting was considered self defense thanks to our "Stand your Ground" laws since you can be placed in no legal jeopardy. If it looks like manslaughter/murder then ammo choice is really the least of your worries.

 

[hoosierdoc]

+p in all my snubbies I want the extra punch. Louder bang is also effective in a self defense situation for shock factor IMHO

I dunno, if I were a bad guy I think any gunshot would freak me out, not just one 10db louder

 

[Excalibur]

You just have to train for it. The recoil is slightly more with +P

 

[Spucky138]

I use +p .38 special in my LCR. The only diffence that I can see is that the recoil is quite a bit rougher. Accuracy was still the same however.

 

[WebHobbit]

+P in typical handgun calibers (9mm. .38 Special) is pretty much ALWAYS an advantage velocity (and therefore chances of expansion) wise in any barrel length even snub guns. It is especially helpful in the case of .38 Special, .44 Special and .45 colt as these are typically loaded at pitifully slow speeds by most brands due to liability concerns with so many ancient guns out there in these calibers.

Recoil-wise I don't notice a great difference between standard and +P in .38, 9mm. .44 Special or .45 Colt (or .45 ACP for that matter). And trust me you wont either after you've shot more. Recoil is in the head as much as it's in the hand (at least with standard handguns - not counting the .454 Casull and up stuff here).

As for cost Ive never noticed +P costing more than the standard pressure versions of the same round. You must compare the same item though (like 9MM HST versus +P HST)

As for +P+ - I don't recommend or use the stuff. As has been noted there are no complete SAAMI standards for that. What I personally NEVER recommend are rounds that are HEAVY for the caliber. These would include:

9mm heavier than 124 grain
.38 Special heavier than 158 (and 158 should only be used for defense with the old soft lead hollow-point "FBI load". 110-135 is fine for jacketed .38 hollow-points.)
.357 Magnum heavier than 158 (and really the 110-135 is optimal here also)

 

[Titanium_Frost]

What I personally NEVER recommend are rounds that are HEAVY for the caliber. These would include:

9mm heavier than 124 grain
.38 Special heavier than 158 (and 158 should only be used for defense with the old soft lead hollow-point "FBI load". 110-135 is fine for jacketed .38 hollow-points.)
.357 Magnum heavier than 158 (and really the 110-135 is optimal here also)

What is your reasoning for this? Lots of good 9mm rounds are 147 gr and it has the benefit of being close to subsonic for suppressed pistols.

Heavier bullets retain their energy better and pistol rounds need all the help they can get in a fight.

 

[c604]

I like the +p 45 acp ammo. In the lighter weight bullets it shoots to point of aim in my commander. Just anouther tool to try for fixed sight guns.

 

[WebHobbit]

What is your reasoning for this? Lots of good 9mm rounds are 147 gr and it has the benefit of being close to subsonic for suppressed pistols.

Heavier bullets retain their energy better and pistol rounds need all the help they can get in a fight.

Well there are LOTs of theories and we can argue about ballistics forever. But it IS fun so... For me -my purpose -MY ONLY purpose for a handgun is personal defense. And most of the time this would probably be in a city situation with lots of bystanders around, I want my round to go in the bad guy, expand, do lots of damage and NOT EXIT. That last bit is probably the most important one from a liability concern. It needs to STAY IN THERE. Heavier rounds tend to penetrate MORE and expand LESS. The 147 grain 9mm round is a FATTY that exceeds the standard original loading by 23 grains. Since it is a heavier round it is also a SLOWER round. You can Google it if you want but there have been a LOT of failures both in stopping power and in slide cycling reliability with the 147 grain round. Admittedly these have mostly been with early versions and the more recent offerings are MUCH improved...but then the 124 and 115 grain version of the same rounds have also improved. So I'd say just stay with what has been proven OVER AND OVER to work well in the 9mm and that is the 115/124 grain JHPs (especially at +P loadings). 2nd post in this thread Masaad Ayoob himself goes into this a bit: 147 gr for SD? - Glock Talk

 

[CAT 1000B]

I don't tend to worry to much if my self defense ammo is +p or not. We all have a good idea what the best bullet designs are for defense situations are. If I am carrying a factory load with a bullet design I trust, I feel that I am well prepared, +p or not.