On Preservation of the Union at Any Cost

[Henry]

What? You mean my private education? Unbelievable.

When you get your ass kicked in a history debate, just accuse the other kicking your ass of going to a government school.

Making stuff up, just like the Neo-Confederates do. It's like there is a pattern present or something.

Your "private" school did not accept federal grants or federal student loans?

Which part of the article(s) I posted are "made up"?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Your "private" school did not accept federal grants or federal student loans?

Always a purity test with the INGOtarians. Always. Politics over fact, always with this bunch.

 

[Henry]

Always a purity test with the INGOtarians. Always. Politics over fact, always with this bunch.

So your "private" school wasn't really "private"?

OK. Maybe you had the perception that it was and after all, that's what matters. What's that old saying... Oh yeah..."perception is reality"...never mind that reality is reality despite perception.

I do appreciate your response.

Which part of the articles(s) I posted are "made up"?

 

[spencer rifle]

Back on topic:
If you want to see what the people who ACTUALLY TRIED TO SECEDE had to say about their reasons, read here:
Ordinances of Secession of the 13 Confederate States of America

They are quite clear about their reasons. Oh, and "peculiar institution" is code for slavery.

 

[Henry]

Slavery, the "peculiar institution, was indeed a reason.

For what reason did Lincoln go to war against those choosing to walk away?

What reason did he use to justify the deaths of over 600,000 people?

 

[mrjarrell]

Slavery, the "peculiar institution, was indeed a reason.

For what reason did Lincoln go to war against those choosing to walk away?

What reason did he use to justify the deaths of over 600,000 people?

Well, the initial justification was the firing on of Ft. Sumter, a foreign encampment in another nation.

 

[ViperJock]

Well, the initial justification was the firing on of Ft. Sumter, a foreign encampment in another nation.

Ha! Well said Jarrel.

 

[Henry]

Well, the initial justification was the firing on of Ft. Sumter, a foreign encampment in another nation.

A foreign encampment which South Carolina attempted to purchase, along with settling its portion of the national debt. Lincoln refused to meet with the ambassadors to discuss the purchase or debt settlement.

Instead, Lincoln attempted a trespass as an instigation.

Regardless, does an incident that results in zero loss of life, save for a mule, justify the killing of over 600,000?

Nah.

What was Lincoln's reason?

 

[zippy23]

Lots of arguring over history. seems that some know about some books, others know about other books. What we should be doing is banding together in the name of freedom, and stop the bickering. This country is in a dire situation. How bout this, we freed slaves. PERIOD. ok, now lets move on to less gov't, WAYYYYY lower taxes. Thats just a start

 

[ATM]

Lots of arguring over history. seems that some know about some books, others know about other books. What we should be doing is banding together in the name of freedom, and stop the bickering. This country is in a dire situation. How bout this, we freed slaves. PERIOD. ok, now lets move on to less gov't, WAYYYYY lower taxes. Thats just a start

But, what if we just wanted to discuss the war crimes of General Sherman during the civil war?

What if freeing slaves had absolutely nothing to do with this topic?

 

[KLB]

But, what if we just wanted to discuss the war crimes of General Sherman during the civil war?

What if freeing slaves had absolutely nothing to do with this topic?

How crazy. Actually wanting to discuss the OP instead of Kirk's derailment.

 

[mrjarrell]

But, what if we just wanted to discuss the war crimes of General Sherman during the civil war?

What if freeing slaves had absolutely nothing to do with this topic?

That would be unheard of here on INGO. Most threads are filled with ADD posters who didn't even bother to read the OP, just Kirks attacks on people.

Personally, I think that Sherman was a war criminal of the first class and, if a world court or Neuremberg type tribunal could have been held afterwards (if the Union actually were a moral and just union) he would have been hanged. The north made a common practice of raping, looting and pillaging and going after non-combatants. Not saying they didn't get caught in the crosshairs in some of the battles with the South, too, but the Southerners didn't make it a common practice.

 

[hopper68]

Both sides did their fair share or atrocities.
Sherman said war is hell then went on to prove it.
The victor does not usually punish those who helped them win.
Most of the battles were in the south so most of the damage was to the south.

The one fact not in dispute, the north won.

 

[Henry]

But, what if we just wanted to discuss the war crimes of General Sherman during the civil war?

What if freeing slaves had absolutely nothing to do with this topic?

Of course, that might require engaging in a discussion that challenges heroic icons, an examination of underlying forces, and (perhaps most frightening of all) critical thinking.

 

[Henry]

The one fact not in dispute, the north won.

Another fact is not in dispute.

A union of choice was suspended in favor of a union by force.

Which best represents the ideas and principles of the founding of the republic?

 

[The Bubba Effect]

It is simple minded to believe that an entire nation of people had one unified purpose for fighting a war.

"the confederacy believed this", "the union believed that" as if either were a single being with desires and intentions.


The term "revisionist history" is a joke too. History is always contested, always revised. The recent shooting in Ferguson happened only a few months ago and already there has been a fierce competition to create the historical account.

 

[Cerberus]

I went to a public school, am very libertarian minded, have read all 13 ordinances of secession including the two that were passed by "legislatures" that were not lawfully elected by the citizenry, just about every primary history both north and south from that war including an 1866 original printing of "The Lost Cause", lived in the south most of my life, had direct line ancestry on both sides, and I am not afraid to say that the south was very wrong.

I will also say this right now. Any Libertarian that is in defense of human bondage, or those in favor of such, in any form is an outright hypocrite, and not at all Libertarian.

 

[Henry]

I went to a public school, am very libertarian minded, have read all 13 ordinances of secession including the two that were passed by "legislatures" that were not lawfully elected by the citizenry, just about every primary history both north and south from that war including an 1866 original printing of "The Lost Cause", lived in the south most of my life, had direct line ancestry on both sides, and I am not afraid to say that the south was very wrong.

I will also say this right now. Any Libertarian that is in defense of human bondage, or those in favor of such, in any form is an outright hypocrite, and not at all Libertarian.

I have yet to see anybody speaking in defense of slavery.

What's your opinion of the expanded central government and the substitute of union by force for union by choice resulting from Lincoln's actions?

What are your opinions regarding his breaches of the Constitution of the united States?

 

[steveh_131]

With all due respect, Sir, you appear to be trying to evade the question.

lol. I actually lol'd.

Get used to it, man. Trying to get him to have any kind of a reasonable discussion is like trying to give a feral cat a bubble bath.

 

[Darral27]

lol. I actually lol'd.

Get used to it, man. Trying to get him to have any kind of a reasonable discussion is like trying to give a feral cat a bubble bath.

I thought I was going to wake the wife up laughing at this. Thanks a lot.
Maybe since wadcutter is new, it says when I looked 10 posts, he may not be aware that Mr Freeman is an attorney. I'm not sure I have ever gotten a straight answer out of an attorney, even the ones working for me.