On Preservation of the Union at Any Cost

[printcraft]

It should be pretty tender by now. This thread's been going on for ages...

Much more of this and there could be charges of abusing a corpse.

 

[Henry]

I'm curious, who has cast Sherman as a hero? Who has cast Lincoln as a defender of freedom? I've read every post and can't find a single one.

All that aside, why does it concern you personally if Sherman was an SOB, and why does it matter to you personally if Lincoln was a tyrannical bastard? What possible effect could that have on your day to day life? What is it that you cannot do or are denied in your life IF they were as you describe? How would your life be better if Lincoln had allowed the south to leave the Union? What additional freedoms would you be enjoying if that is how it had played out?

Are you looking around at anything other than posts on a forum?


Have you not noticed that images of Lincoln are frequently given prominent display in government classrooms across the country?
Have you not noticed what image is on the penny? The $5 script? Have you not seen the monument to the tyrannical bastard in the District of Columbia?
Have you not noticed how statists of both wings of the political party will invoke his name as justification for expansion of the central government?


Regarding Sherman, did you read the article in the OP or the NYT article referenced by that article? Did you read the marker that glosses over the historical accounts of Sherman's murderous ways?




Georgia Historical Society to Commemorate Beginning of Sherman?s March to the Sea | Georgia Historical Society




The March to the Sea


On November 15, 1864, during the Civil War, U.S. forces under Gen. William T. Sherman set out from Atlanta on the March to the Sea, a military campaign designed to destroy the Confederacy’s ability to wage war and break the will of its people to resist. After destroying Atlanta’s industrial and business (but not residential) districts, Sherman’s 62,500 men marched over 250 miles, reaching Savannah in mid-December. Contrary to popular myth, Sherman’s troops primarily destroyed only property used for waging war – railroads, train depots, factories, cotton gins, and warehouses. Abandoning their supply base, they lived off the land, destroying food they could not consume. They also liberated thousands of enslaved African Americans in their path. Sherman’s “hard hand of war” demoralized Confederates, hastening the end of slavery and the reunification of the nation.






History matters. The breeches of the Constitution by Lincoln, his administration, and the federal government of the day are often used as precedent to justify the further expansion of the federal government and encroachment upon the States today. Many within this thread declare his actions have rendered the Ninth Amendment and Tenth Amendment meaningless.














(BTW, in addition to glossing over the plunder, rape and murder of private citizens, the marker fails to mention how he left hundreds of "liberated African-American slaves" to drown at Ebenezer Creek.)

 

[Henry]

I agree history matters but, that doesn't answer any of my questions. If you, me or anyone else walked out their door TODAY exactly what would be different as far as freedom? Again, exactly what is it we cannot do or are denied if Sherman was an SOB and Lincoln was a tyrannical bastard?

If we all agreed these two people were what some believe, what would be different TODAY? To me all this is just an exercise in futility.

The 14th Amendment is a direct result of Lincoln, his administration, and his expansion of the federal government.


One provision under the 14th is that anybody birthed on "united States land" or related territories is a citizen. This provision is used by non citizens who birth their children within the States in order to force you and other taxpayers to subsidize what are often described as "anchor babies".

 

[steveh_131]

I think what Steve and them are saying is the sovereignty of the individual states has never been the same since then. If they were, things like ObamaCare would likely never seen the light of day outside of Massachusetts.

This is well said, and does line up with the point I am trying to make.

 

[steveh_131]

Can we start with slavery and the war on Native Americans, then, and how the Southerners benefited therefrom?

Sure.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

This is well said, and does line up with the point I am trying to make.

Not that I expect to be widely quoted....buuuuuut....cobber didn't write that.

 

[steveh_131]

Not that I expect to be widely quoted....buuuuuut....cobber didn't write that.

The 'Reply With Quote' button gets it wrong sometimes. Annoying.

 

[hopper68]

Not that I expect to be widely quoted....buuuuuut....cobber didn't write that.

He is just revising history to fit his needs, nothing new.

 

[steveh_131]

He is just revising history to fit his needs, nothing new.

Really, man?

 

[rambone]

I'm curious, who has cast Sherman as a hero?

General Sherman is viewed as so awesome that the largest living tree on earth is named after him.

All that aside, why does it concern you personally if Sherman was an SOB, and why does it matter to you personally if Lincoln was a tyrannical bastard? What possible effect could that have on your day to day life? What is it that you cannot do or are denied in your life IF they were as you describe? How would your life be better if Lincoln had allowed the south to leave the Union? What additional freedoms would you be enjoying if that is how it had played out?

Every objective look at history shows that the federal government surged in power with Lincoln & the war between the states. The dam broke in 1861 and things have never been the same. We have been left with a federal government that can overrun states with no recourse; checks and balances have been cut away. The subsequent legal precedents paved the way for an avalanche of new powers. There is no telling how much different things might have been today if things had happened differently.

Lincoln was also the progenitor of the federal income tax and laid the groundwork for the IRS (long before the 16th amendment). That alone should earn him a place of scorn in history.

Revenue Act of 1861 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[spencer rifle]

The Revenue Act of 1861 expired as it was meant to. It took a "Progressive" Democrat statist (Wilson) to make it permanent and establish the Federal Reserve.

 

[rambone]

The Revenue Act of 1861 expired as it was meant to. It took a "Progressive" Democrat statist (Wilson) to make it permanent and establish the Federal Reserve.

Whether it was temporary or not is irrelevant. Federal income tax was not constitutional until 1913. Lincoln, in his usual form, broke the constitution to get something he wanted.

And as you pointed out, even after it was official and constitutional, taxing income is still "progressive" and "statist."