OK to carry in the Indianapolis Zoo?

[Bummer]

I assume you mean the parking garage ATTACHED TO THE MUSEUM? Since that is the only parking across the street.

Nope. There's another across. Diagonally. The south west corner has a parking lot shared by a medical association and Ivy Tech. I was going to Ivy Tech at the time and our course manager had us parking there.

Again, 30th and Illinois is not a safe place. Just because there is a museum there doesn't mean criminals leave you alone.

I'm certainly in no position to argue with that.

After all... criminals would never target a place with cash carrying tourists who are within walking distance of their hood

Purple, right?

 

[revance]

I don't recall what those who are more versed in the law call it something to the effect that Indiana Gun laws do not consider intent when being applied. Meaning that if you walk onto a church which happens to also have a school and area arrested for having a gun at the school the law does not care that your intent was to go to the church only.

The law as it is written is black/white in this regard.

Now you are correct that with no case law it would be up to the judge and/or jury to determine so it's a 50/50 chance that you are taking on that one. In this case the we have unintended consequences due to how the law was written and no Indiana rep ha seen to it to fix it.

You are referring to Strict Liability.

That is something completely different.

Strict liability means there is no need for mens rea (evil intent). It means you don't have to intend to break the law or even know you were doing it. What I am talking about is the intent of the law itself. I do not believe the law was written with the INTENT to make people drinking a coffee at McDonalds a felon if a school bus pulls up. So I believe IMHO that if someone was arrested for carrying at a school because they were at the mall at the same time as a (unrelated to them) school field trip, they would be exonerated.

 

[jedi]

You are referring to Strict Liability.

That is something completely different.

Strict liability means there is no need for mens rea (evil intent). It means you don't have to intend to break the law or even know you were doing it. What I am talking about is the intent of the law itself. I do not believe the law was written with the INTENT to make people drinking a coffee at McDonalds a felon if a school bus pulls up. So I believe IMHO that if someone was arrested for carrying at a school because they were at the mall at the same time as a (unrelated to them) school field trip, they would be exonerated.

Yes that is the word and yes I agree with you in what you are saying at the end of your post. The consensus from what I read is that the law was written with the intent of keeping little jimmy from going to a non-school bldg (ie. promo) with his gun when that bldg is havnig a school function.

However as I have stated before the law is black/whte right now and a zelous DA *cough* think Indy or Bloomington area *cough* can bring up charged against a gun owner for this. Will it stick? Depends on the judge as how anal they want to be about it.

 

[revance]

I wouldn't say the law is "black and white". Nothing defines a school function.

This is why we need some case law to establish how this law is supposed to be applied. Unfortunately, what we really need is not going to happen. We need someone carrying at a completely neutral location to be arrested when a school group unexpectedly shows up. We need it to be something that will generate a lot (relative term) of sympathy for the gun carrier. What we really DON'T want is someone getting arrested in a situation where they aren't 100% innocent in every other way.

Otherwise you end up with case law created like that from that drug dealer who got busted for dealing near a "school"... which was actually a church/community center. I don't remember the guys name, but the goal of giving a drug dealer a harsher sentence resulted in very poor case law for those who carry guns. Everyone was so blinded by their hatred of the drug dealer they completely ignored the fact the case law would impact those who legally carry firearms.

Lets say someone was caught dealing drugs at a McDonalds at the same time a school bus pulled into the parking lot. They find an illegally carried gun on him. In their attempt to "throw the book at him" they could create some REALLY bad case law for those of us who legally carry firearms by applying the "school function" bit of the law on him.

What we need is a 65yo disabled Vietnam veteran peacefully drinking coffee at a restaurant with his granddaughter to be arrested under the "school function" clause when a school group (completely unrelated to him) unexpectedly shows up. Then we need him to be prosecuted. Fat chance of that EVER happening because no cop is going to do it (even if they knew about the law).

 

[jedi]

No we don't need case law! What we need is for the

law to either be tossed or re-written to expect LTCH or re-written to define those vague terms.!

 

[revance]

Agreed... lets just scrap the whole thing. Let people carry wherever they want.

Good luck with that though, for some reason guns near schools is a real hot button. Sadly, I doubt SB319 will even pass.

 

[revance]

Dupe

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

What makes it even MORE frustrating is that SOME states allow those with their CCW/LTCH/etc to carry on school property and even IN schools.

I know that it's either WA or OR that allows this. There are probably others.

-J-

 

[jedi]

Agreed... lets just scrap the whole thing. Let people carry wherever they want.

Good luck with that though, for some reason guns near schools is a real hot button. Sadly, I doubt SB319 will even pass.

Attitude like that does not help. BTW did you call your senator today to help pass the current firearm bills that are about to get voted on in the Senate?

See here for more info:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...eeds_our_help_sb_292_and_sb_506_2-7-11_a.html

 

[revance]

Utah allows it.

 

[revance]

Attitude like that does not help. BTW did you call your senator today to help pass the current firearm bills that are about to get voted on in the Senate?

See here for more info:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...eeds_our_help_sb_292_and_sb_506_2-7-11_a.html

Not only did I contact my Senator asking him to support it, I emailed every member of the Corrections, Criminal, and Civil Matters Committee asking them to hear and pass the bill on.

I also contacted them regarding many other bills. Its not an attitude problem, sadly its fact. I will do everything humanly possible to promote these bills, but the fact is that once someone says the words "school" and "guns" in the same sentence, people flip out. Hence the "parking lot bill" not only excluded schools, but also universities.

oops, you weren't talking about SB319... yes, I have contacted my Senator regarding all of the current pro-gun bills.

 

[bassplayrguy]

Are they thinking of passing a bill to allow you to carry without a permit? I can't see that happening.

 

[revance]

Are they thinking of passing a bill to allow you to carry without a permit? I can't see that happening.

No, just to have it in your car without a license. One merely adds "going to the range" to the list of exceptions and the other appears to create Constitutional car carry.

 

[jedi]

Are they thinking of passing a bill to allow you to carry without a permit? I can't see that happening.

Go to the other thread to see the actual text/discussion please as this one is for the zoo. Short answer is "sort of". The bill would allow you to have an UNLOADED & SECURE handgun in your car. So those without permits can go to/from the range without any issues.

Again attitude like yours does not help. Say question for you. Have you called your senator and told him to pass this new bill? Have you spammed all your other Indiana gun owners to do the same? If not why?

 

[revance]

Go to the other thread to see the actual text/discussion please as this one is for the zoo. Short answer is "sort of". The bill would allow you to have an UNLOADED & SECURE handgun in your car. So those without permits can go to/from the range without any issues.

Again attitude like yours does not help. Say question for you. Have you called your senator and told him to pass this new bill? Have you spammed all your other Indiana gun owners to do the same? If not why?

SB506 does not require it be unloaded and secure at all times.

(b) Except as provided in subsection (c), a person may carry a handgun on or about the person's body without being licensed under this chapter to carry a handgun if:
(1) the person is:
(A) in or on property; or
(B) in a vehicle;
that is owned, leased, rented, or otherwise legally controlled by the person;
(2) the person is lawfully present:
(A) in or on private property; or
(B) in a vehicle;
that is owned, leased, rented, or otherwise legally controlled by another person;
(3) the person is carrying the handgun:
(A) at a shooting range (as defined in IC 14-22-31.5-3);
(B) while attending a firearms instructional course; or
(C) while engaged in a legal hunting activity; or
(4) the handgun is:
(A) unloaded; and
(B) securely wrapped.

SB147 merely adds transporting unloaded/securely wrapped to and from a range.

 

[jedi]

SB506 does not require it be unloaded and secure at all times.

Correct (i think since I'm not to savay on reading IC)

Part 1 allows you to carry on your person while *IN* a car you own.
Part 4 allows you to carry everywhere else provided it is (4) the handgun is unloaded and securely wrapped.

At least from how I am reading it.

 

[amw575]

Has anyone carried at the zoo recently to know the entry search procedures? Lucas Oil a couple of weeks ago was just a tap around the waist and in you go. Just curious if the Zoo had gotten any stricter as of late. Taking the family up there this weekend and wondered which CC to carry.

 

[9mmfan]

My son and I spent a day in Indy earlier this spring. One day we went to the zoo; another day we went to Lucas Oil Stadium for a tour. Ate at the Weber Grill downtown. CC at all those places.

 

[CalebToNowhere]

I CC'd my 1911 there just last week. I'm sure if you OC'd they'd ask you to leave.

 

[eldirector]

CC-ed at the Indy zoo on Sunday. No search procedures at all, at least for us Zoo Members. I did not notice any "no weapons" signs of any sort. They have increased security, with patrols in the parking area, patrols throughout the zoo (security staff with radios), and lots of cameras (more than a few years ago). Halfway decent CCW would add some additional safety for you and yours.