Noblesville Police say "Don't resist criminals"

[elaw555]

From the IndyStar

Police impersonator suspected in attack
NOBLESVILLE, Ind. -- A Noblesville woman fought off a suspected police impersonator who pulled her over early Tuesday and struck her in the face.
The unidentified 29-year-old woman was westbound on Ind. 38 near Ind. 32 about 2:30 a.m. when a vehicle with a flashing red light appeared behind her, according to a news release from Lt. Bruce Barnes of the Noblesville Police Department.

Thinking the other driver was a police officer, the woman pulled over and began searching for her registration. The man in the other vehicle then walked up to her vehicle and struck her in the face with his hand through her open window, Barnes said.
The two struggled for a few moments until the woman pulled a knife on the man, who drove away east on Ind. 38.
"We don't know what caused him to flee, whether it was the victim fighting back or an oncoming vehicle," Barnes said. "We always caution against resisting in situations, but when someone is being physically assaulted, it's hard to say not to do anything."
arnes said the woman was treated at the scene for an injury to her nose.

Police impersonation cases are rare in Hamilton County, occurring once or twice a year, Barnes said. Official police vehicles have red and blue flashing lights, and officers must be in uniform when driving an unmarked car, he said.
Anyone with information on the case is asked to call the Police Department at (317) 776-6371.

First, they can't even bring themselves to admit that a woman pulled a knife on a criminal and changed the disparity of force and caused the criminal to flee and likely saved her life. An oncoming car?! Whatever comrade. Are the police angry she didn't toe the party line and allow herself to be attacked and then call the police?

Second, "we always caution against resisting in situations"? Always? No exceptions? Sounds to me like you guys up there need to get a different police chief in there.

And here is the NPD's [STRIKE]rules[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]requirements[/STRIKE] suggestions for dealing with a police impersonator.

What you can do
The Noblesville Police Department suggests the following actions if you suspect you are being targeted by a police impersonator while driving:

» Continue to drive and go to a well-lit or populated area.

» Maintain a reasonable speed and turn on your hazard lights.

» Call 911 and inform dispatchers as soon as possible.

» Here are suggestions if you have stopped and you suspect the person may be a police impersonator:

» Roll down your window just enough to allow for communication between you and the person outside. Lock your doors and remain in the vehicle.

» If the person is in plain clothes, request that he or she provide a badge, identification or business card.

» Ask the person to send a uniformed officer or marked police car.

Source: Noblesville Police Department

Good advice, but I'm surprised throwing up isn't in there.

 

[Eddie]

not resisting

Read up on some of the court cases that reach the Indiana Court of appeals. You don't need to read the legal discussions and reasoning, just the facts part where it tells what happened. Month after month there are cases, often home invasion but some of them armed robberies where the victims cooperate completely and then once they are all tied up and can't move the bad guys kill them. I'm not going out that way.

 

[Pami]

From the IndyStar

"We always caution against resisting in situations, but when someone is being physically assaulted, it's hard to say not to do anything."

Second, "we always caution against resisting in situations"? Always? No exceptions? Sounds to me like you guys up there need to get a different police chief in there.

I wouldn't be too harsh on him. If you read the rest of the sentence, he says it's "hard to say not to do anything" when someone is punching the victim in the face.

Read up on some of the court cases that reach the Indiana Court of appeals. You don't need to read the legal discussions and reasoning, just the facts part where it tells what happened. Month after month there are cases, often home invasion but some of them armed robberies where the victims cooperate completely and then once they are all tied up and can't move the bad guys kill them. I'm not going out that way.

A friend on here once told me that he has certain rules about when his go-with-the-flow stops. One is if the attacker demands to tie him up and move him to a back room or in to the vehicle. HUGE clue there that the attacker probably doesn't intend to leave you in good health.

 

[Scutter01]

Sounds to me like you guys up there need to get a different police chief in there.

He is the new Chief. IIRC, he came from Westfield.

Other than this dumb comment, I really have no knowledge of his ability or effectiveness as a police officer or a police chief. He's only been on the job since May.

 

[paddling_man]

It's like a play in a football game with greater consequences. Street urchin thug with a knife? I might be better off giving him the $20 than dealing with the legal consequences and conscience (maybe) of filling him full of holes.

Tie me up and move to back room? Heck no.

My wife's aunt and uncle were both murdered, execution style, along with a single teller during a bank robbery just a few years ago. Could he have saved their life if he resisted? Who can say. I daresay, that if he had the clarity of vision to foresee the outcome, that he would have resisted.

USC Upstate: University Center in Greenville - Eb & Maggie Barnes Memorial Scholarship

MySpace

 

[fpdshooter]

Unfortunately he is being politically correct. Because of the amount of lawyers and frivolous lawsuits he has to say that. Otherwise if a victim resists and gets hurt, guess who the family sues? I won't speak for anyone else, but I'm all for fighting back. It makes my job easy and fun!

 

[LEaSH]

You'll never hear a cop recommend that a citizen get a LTCH and legitimate training to use a handgun to save themselves.

Not in public anyway. It would freak out the folks that might actually believe the police will be able to save them anytime or place they might encounter a bad guy.

 

[Lars]

You'll never hear a cop recommend that a citizen get a LTCH and legitimate training to use a handgun to save themselves.

Not in public anyway. It would freak out the folks that might actually believe the police will be able to save them anytime or place they might encounter a bad guy.

I've had at least three officers ask me when seeing the pink LTCH if I had my gun with me. and in all three cases the response when I said yes was "Good."

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

You'll never hear a cop recommend that a citizen get a LTCH and legitimate training to use a handgun to save themselves.

Not in public anyway. It would freak out the folks that might actually believe the police will be able to save them anytime or place they might encounter a bad guy.

You'll never hear a cop give someone a warning for a traffic offense either . Public or private, I'll tell anyone that wants to listen that if they are a law-abiding citizen they should get their LTCH and actually carry a gun because the police probably aren't going to be there at the exact moment they are needed.

 

[DWFan]

They consider it rare when police impersonations happen once or twice a year? I don't know what to say about that since some counties I've lived (all across the country) see a police impersonation once or twice a decade; and I've lived in some sizable population areas.

 

[dburkhead]

According to the Department of Justice based on a study commissioned by the National Institute of Justice in 2005, at least in the case of rape and attempted rape:

Most self-protective actions significantly reduce the risk that a rape will be completed. In particular, certain actions reduce the risk of rape more than 80 percent compared to nonresistance. The most effective actions, according to victims, are attacking or struggling against their attacker, running away, and verbally warning the attacker.

And:

According to the researchers, the only self-protective tactics that appear to increase the risk of injury significantly were those that are ambiguous and not forceful. These included stalling, cooperating and screaming from pain or fear.

Finally, even when the rape is completed:

A separate study* found that even when a rape was completed, women who used some form of resistance had better mental health outcomes than those who did not resist.

So why in the world is anyone in a position of responsibility recommending anything but resisting?

*Ullman, S.E., "Rape avoidance: Self-protection strategies for women." In Schewe, P.A. (Ed.). Preventing violence in relationships: Interventions across the life span. (pp. 137-162). Washington, DC: American Psychological Association, 2002.

 

[dburkhead]

You'll never hear a cop recommend that a citizen get a LTCH and legitimate training to use a handgun to save themselves.

Not in public anyway. It would freak out the folks that might actually believe the police will be able to save them anytime or place they might encounter a bad guy.

Funny, I've heard exactly that.

 

[combat_commander]

He is the new Chief. IIRC, he came from Westfield.

Other than this dumb comment, I really have no knowledge of his ability or effectiveness as a police officer or a police chief. He's only been on the job since May.

Actually the Chief of Police is Kevin Jowitt. You are right in the fact that he did come from Westfield. We need to remember however that the media likes to reword people whom they "quote" to make it fit their article. I know most of the Noblesville Police Officers and they are wonderful people who care about their community. Even if he did say that, he's probably speaking in terms of the general public, most of whom don't practice their Second Amendment Right. It is also proven that in most general cases that complying with criminals will lessen your chance of abuse or even death. Lady did what I would have done, except replace the knife with a .45.

 

[Scutter01]

Actually the Chief of Police is Kevin Jowitt.

Yeah, I knew that. Somehow, I glossed over that it wasn't Jowitt making the comment to the reporter.

 

[elaw555]

Yeah, I knew that. Somehow, I glossed over that it wasn't Jowitt making the comment to the reporter.

The Lt. making the comments says

"We always caution against resisting in situations, but when someone is being physically assaulted, it's hard to say not to do anything."

"We" meaning this is official NPD policy. Meaning the Chief had to at least seen it, or approved it. If he approves policy to be used to make suggestions to the community he serves that the Department of Justice does not agree with the I question his ability to serve the community.

My issue with the statement is the use of the word "always". It is bad wording at least.

 

[henktermaat]

It's about time someone sued them for making them feel that they did not have the right to defend themselves, resulting in getting hurt in a crime.

 

[mrjarrell]

Glad I live outside their jurisdiction. I like the HCSO better, anyway. At least they don't tell you to be a victim.

 

[paddling_man]

I like Fishers.

 

[WileECoyotee]

If the person is in plain clothes, request that he or she provide a badge, identification or business card

I don't think I'd trust anyone with a Business card as proper id for LEO , would you ?

 

[Scutter01]

I don't think I'd trust anyone with a Business card as proper id for LEO , would you ?

IIRC, if they're in plain clothes, they have to be in a marked cruiser. Unmarked and plain clothes, I'm not rolling my window down.