No knock warrants - do they scare you?

[zebov]

Every now and then, I start thinking about no-knock warrants and how I and my wife would be dead if they accidentally executed one on my residence by mistake. Is there any way to prevent being killed during a mistake no-knock warrant without letting down your guard against a BG barging into your house in the middle of the night? Does this type of situation concern anyone else? What sort of liability would the police officers have if they no-knocked the wrong house (honest mistake) and killed the residents for pointing guns at them? It seems like the answer could very-well be "none" and that concerns me.

 

[PatriotPride]

Dynamic entry not recommended. Occupants armed.

In all seriousness, this IS an issue to be concerned about. I have no idea as to what the liability of the LEOs and PD would be.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

If you identify your target before you point a gun at it (like you always should) would you still point a gun at an LEO once you identified them as such?

 

[jeremy]

Question for you Frank if 10-15 of my guys came to your residence and executed a dynamic entrance would you?! I mean we are Soldiers...

 

[IndyMonkey]

I would probably pee a little in my pants, but that would be all.

THen I would inflate an estimate to the city for my door repair and couch cleaning.

 

[jbombelli]

If you identify your target before you point a gun at it (like you always should) would you still point a gun at an LEO once you identified them as such?

Well, if all I can identify is the shadowy forms of several unknown guys kicking in my door without good reason to be there, dressed in black and wearing masks, and making a concerted effort to confuse the situation as much as possible in order to get the drop on me, bad things are going to happen. And here is how bad: I keep a loaded AK Underfolder (75 rd. drum) next to the bed. I won't hesitate to dump all 75 rounds into the heads of whoever is coming up through the chokepoint at the top of the stairs. And I have reloads if necessary.

Whatever happens later, happens later. It won't change what happens at that moment.

edited: you see, the police have no reason to come to my house. Therefore I'll consider ANYONE kicking in my door to be a bad guy. If they're yelling "police" I'll just assume they're trying to confuse me. So you better make sure you're NOT kicking in the wrong door.

 

[infidel]

If you identify your target before you point a gun at it (like you always should) would you still point a gun at an LEO once you identified them as such?

Identified as in what? Him yelling," POLICE!"? Saw he had blue pants and buttoned shirt on? Saw his ID? Got confirmation of his ID after you called 911?

If there is a guy that blows through my front door at night I'm not going to be nice to him because he has what may or may not appear to be a cop uniform in the pitch dark.

 

[mrjarrell]

Dynamic entry not recommended. Occupants armed.

In all seriousness, this IS an issue to be concerned about. I have no idea as to what the liability of the LEOs and PD would be.

They have no liability, as has been shown in numerous instances. The verdict is always the same, "the officers acted in accordance with our policies", "nothing to see here". If you're lucky the city will repair your door, but you're responsible for other damages and if they kill a member of your family...that's just too bad.

 

[zebov]

If you identify your target before you point a gun at it (like you always should) would you still point a gun at an LEO once you identified them as such?

I would identify the target/threat before pulling the trigger as best I could. However, I wouldn't jump out of bed, unarmed, head to the door, ask "Who's there?", notice that it was a bad guy, walk back to my room, grab my gun, and then point it. No, my gun would be in my hand and pointing in the general direction of the presumed threat.

To suggest that a homeowner identifies a midnight intruder before arming themselves is irresponsible. That's a sure way to make your good tool (firearm) completely useless at best and used against you at worst.

Are you suggesting that we not be armed when assessing a midnight break-in?

 

[MarkM]

You always need to identify your target as a threat before you even engage them. Besides they usually yell police don't they?

 

[infidel]

Besides they usually yell police don't they?

Come on now.....If I busted into your house in the middle of the night and yelled "JESUS" would you drop to your knees in front of me?

 

[zebov]

You always need to identify your target as a threat before you even engage them. Besides they usually yell police don't they?

Again I will ask, are you suggesting I not be armed when assessing a midnight break-in?

 

[Sgt Rock]

I too keep a handgun near me at home. "Dynamic Entry" by LEO could very well be a gang of thugs breaking your door down. If, while you think you are protecting your home and family, you shoot one of them, they will bring a world of hurt down on you and mess up your whole day. BAD situation for everybody. I think the onus is on the police here. Your rights STOP when they start infringing on mine. JMHO

 

[jbombelli]

You always need to identify your target as a threat before you even engage them. Besides they usually yell police don't they?

A lot of bad guys yell "police" too, when they're doing home invasions. Since the police don't have any legitimate reason to be at my house, anybody kicking in the door will be immediately considered a bad guy, and a threat. And as I said above, whatever happens later, happens later. It won't change how I handle the home invasion.

 

[mrjarrell]

You always need to identify your target as a threat before you even engage them. Besides they usually yell police don't they?

So do lots of criminals in home invasion cases. They even have badges and jackets with COP written on them. Just because someone yells "Cop" doesn't mean they are one.

 

[trafalga]

I had a uniformed office knock / ring the doobell one night late. I answered it armed, saw it was an officer and stepped onto the front porch. Before he started talking I informed him (which I don't belive I have to do) that I was armed. He appeared visibly shocked by that which surprised me. I don't live in a "really" bad area, but I do live in the city, so his reaction surprised me.

We proceeded to talk and realized he was at the wrong house.

I am a pretty sound sleeper and have "drawn" on one of my cat's before after they knocked something over in the middle of the night.

 

[Colt556]

It would be a bad situation I think. First of all you are awakened by the door being kicked in and all the yelling and commotion. You're not fully alert, armed men are yelling, shining lights around and invading your home. Most cops used for the entries don't dress in everyday uniforms, many are masked (why?) with long hair, beards, etc. The dog will be barking, well until they shot it I guess and then all Hell would break loose. I hope this never happens to me or anyone on here. It's a lose/lose in my estimation.

 

[JoshuaW]

They have no liability, as has been shown in numerous instances. The verdict is always the same, "the officers acted in accordance with our policies", "nothing to see here". If you're lucky the city will repair your door, but you're responsible for other damages and if they kill a member of your family...that's just too bad.

Wrongful death? I dont care if I would lose, I would still push as much publicity as humanly possible, and attempt to sue the city back to the 17th century.

I have thought about this situation. I think more than anything my dogs would be at risk, especially if it happened at night. By the time they got to my bedroom, or I got to the front room, it would probably be apparent what was going on. My dogs though... If someone comes through my front door in the night, they are going to be barking, growling, and probably biting. Unfortunately when it comes to dogs, it seems LEOs might be inclined to shoot them first, and ask questions later.

 

[Tryin']

The only time I have seen a "no-knock" warrant delivered was by a team in FULL call-out gear. If that is how they serve the supposed scenario, I am probably (in MY dwelling) going to be able to differentiate between them and a band of roving Sheridan juveniles.

You folks in tight quarters and in areas of high crime. . . I would hope that nothing violent would happen, but if it did, make damn sure your response is not "excessive". Dumping 3 beta mags is probably going to be looked at differently than a shotgun blast or two.

To the officers here: what is protocol on resistance? In a dwelling with a myriad of chokes and funnels , do you continue the raid if the lead takes effective fire? How many guys go down before retreat is called? Do "operators" check assault plans (addresses and such) before the execution? (poor choice of words there, sorry. . . )

The odds of this happening to me are infinitesimal. Not only am I familiar with a few of the Sheridan police, they know where i live.

 

[Expat]

I guess I am stupid. Someone kicks in my door, they are automatically a bad guy. It would never cross my mind it would be a good guy. I am not a druggie, don't associate with anyone that is. I am a pure as the driven snow citizen. So I may start throwing shots as they door bursts in if I am up and ready.