No consent.

[INGunGuy]

While I agree with this, it unfortunately just doesn't work out that way.

When I was recently asked if I had ant illegal weapons in the car I said no. Later when asked if I had ANY weapons in the car I said yes, a .357 IWB.....He took it as though I was being a smartazz about saying no....after all, he is an english major....not, but he is a cop and thus so thinks his badge entitles him to something special.

But, my question is, Is it unlawful to lie to the police about something completely irrelevant to the stop at hand? Lets say for just a moment that you are stopped by the police for speeding. During the course of the stop the LEO asks you if you "Do you have any kids in college?" Well if you lie and say no, then the officer completes the stop and you go on your way with a ticket for $127.50. Now if you say yes, then the officer asks you oh were does he/she goes? You then answer and all of the sudden there is a rapport that allows the officer to determine if you are under the influence, being evasive in your answers, being a smartazz about what college basketball team is better than the other, etc, etc. Why get that in depth? So you lie to him/her and say no to a gun being in the car, there isnt any reason that I have that would require a officer to remove me or do a unwarranted search of my vehicle. I dont want any of my dealings with LEO to be anything more than being stopped for an infraction, told what I did, given a ticket, and being let on my way. I will be cordial, nice, and NON confrontational. I will have my lights on, my hands on the steering wheel, I wont be reaching around, and have my window opened to allow the officer and I to converse. That should put any officer at ease should it come that I am stopped.

INGunGuy

 

[nate1865]

Say nothing or tell the truth.

 

[finity]

But, my question is, Is it unlawful to lie to the police about something completely irrelevant to the stop at hand? Lets say for just a moment that you are stopped by the police for speeding. During the course of the stop the LEO asks you if you "Do you have any kids in college?" Well if you lie and say no, then the officer completes the stop and you go on your way with a ticket for $127.50. Now if you say yes, then the officer asks you oh were does he/she goes? You then answer and all of the sudden there is a rapport that allows the officer to determine if you are under the influence, being evasive in your answers, being a smartazz about what college basketball team is better than the other, etc, etc. Why get that in depth? So you lie to him/her and say no to a gun being in the car, there isnt any reason that I have that would require a officer to remove me or do a unwarranted search of my vehicle. I dont want any of my dealings with LEO to be anything more than being stopped for an infraction, told what I did, given a ticket, and being let on my way. I will be cordial, nice, and NON confrontational. I will have my lights on, my hands on the steering wheel, I wont be reaching around, and have my window opened to allow the officer and I to converse. That should put any officer at ease should it come that I am stopped.

INGunGuy

+1

I agree.

I've asked the same question her several times in the past.

Where is the law that says I can't lie to the police? No one has answered the question. With all the cops & lawyers we have here you'd think that if it was illegal that SOMEONE should have been able to point to the law.

It may be "morally" wrong but that doesn't make it illegal.

They can lie to me to get me to incriminate myself. Why can't I lie to them to possibly NOT incriminate myself?

I am not under oath during a police encounter. I am not iterfering with the investigation because the question doesn't pertain to the stop. If the cops ask if I knew why they pulled me over & I say "no" - even though I fully knew that I was speeding - isn't that a lie as well? No one would have a problem with that lie (even though it is completely related to the stop) so why should anyone have a problem with a lie about a legally carried gun that is completely UNRELATED to the stop?

I think it will most likely come down to "you will respect my authoritah!".

Really, I'd honestly like to know.

 

[INGunGuy]

I am not under oath during a police encounter. I am not iterfering with the investigation because the question doesn't pertain to the stop. If the cops ask if I knew why they pulled me over & I say "no" - even though I fully knew that I was speeding - isn't that a lie as well? No one would have a problem with that lie (even though it is completely related to the stop) so why should anyone have a problem with a lie about a legally carried gun that is completely UNRELATED to the stop?

I think it will most likely come down to "you will respect my authoritah!".

Really, I'd honestly like to know.

That question would be the main question that a person shouldnt answer. Why would you ask, well if you are asked why you are pulled over and you say "Oh I was running about 85 in that 65 mile per hour zone" well you have just incriminated yourself and that will be used against you if you decide to fight the ticket in court. Basically if asked if you know why you are pulled over, just answer, "No, why?"

INGunGuy

 

[steve666]

So if I get stopped by LEO for a traffic violation and they ask for my firearm, what happens if I refuse to turn it over as long as I show my LTCH?

As others have said - right, wrong, or indifferent... you're just inviting a world of hurt to fall down upon you!!!

 

[walt o]

Look at it this way In Ill. Blogo. was convicted for lying the only thing they could stick him with .Martha Stewart went to prison for lying . Don't answer or don't lie

 

[INGunGuy]

Look at it this way In Ill. Blogo. was convicted for lying the only thing they could stick him with .Martha Stewart went to prison for lying . Don't answer or don't lie

They were also found guilty of lying under oath. Just being asked a stupid question by a LEO you are NOT under oath. So, lets say some dumb**** kills his wife/kids/father/brother/etc and they are stopped for speeding and asked if the reason they are speeding is because they just murdered someone as a funny funny by the LEO. Well that person will lie and say no, so same thing they werent lying under oath only to a question asked that had nothing to do with the stop at hand...

INGunGuy

 

[INGunGuy]

Ok, I will ask it like this:

Is it UNLAWFUL to lie to the police in answer to questions not pertaining to a traffic stop at hand? If it is please cite references.

Thanks in advance.

INGunGuy

 

[Fargo]

It depends largely on whether a crime is being investigated at the time. See IC 35-44-2-2.

Joe

 

[jdhaines]

This "lie" question has been on my mind for quite some time as well with no good answer being given yet. If I say I don't have a weapon and he finds out I do, have I committed a crime or made my situation worse other than he's in a worse mood? Don't just say "how would he find out..." I curious. I always figured I would lie all day about my gun until he asked me to get out of the car and there was a chance he would see it, then I would inform so it wouldn't be a surprise. 99% of the time I won't be asked out of the car and I would go about my business. Am I committing a crime by doing this?

If the gun was on the next seat I would inform immediately for the same reason. I'm not into surprising a cop with a gun...

 

[GeneralCarver]

Yeah, you do have to listen to cops and they can do a weapons pat down on you and also to secure your weapons. I mean, aside from being interrupted during your day, I don't think this should be of much concern. Its not like he setting you up to kill you or anything. Give them up, cooperate, get'em back and get on with your day.

 

[INGunGuy]

It depends largely on whether a crime is being investigated at the time. See IC 35-44-2-2.

Joe

So then basically since IC 35-44-2-2 requires you to lie during the investigation of a crime, or under oath, and by carrying a firearm you are NOT committing a crime, then by lying to a LEO it is NOT a crime about a gun just because you were pulled over for speeding. IF a LEO were looking for a stolen gun and your vehicle fit the description you may be under jeopardy of committing a crime under 35-44-2-2 if you lie about having a firearm at that time.

So just lie and who cares...

INGunGuy

 

[ATM]

I believe that the right to not answer is far more powerful than the choice to lie.

 

[dross]

Yeah, you do have to listen to cops and they can do a weapons pat down on you and also to secure your weapons. I mean, aside from being interrupted during your day, I don't think this should be of much concern. Its not like he setting you up to kill you or anything. Give them up, cooperate, get'em back and get on with your day.

And hey, if they need to do a quick search of your house, why not let them? Just keep doing what you're doing, it won't be much of a disruption.

 

[jdhaines]

Yeah, you do have to listen to cops and they can do a weapons pat down on you and also to secure your weapons. I mean, aside from being interrupted during your day, I don't think this should be of much concern. Its not like he setting you up to kill you or anything. Give them up, cooperate, get'em back and get on with your day.

Suure, it won't KILL you to just show them your ID, or let them do anything else in the essense of being a good little civvy. The fact that you actually say the words "GIVE THEM UP, COOPERATE..." lets me know where you will stand on this issue. I'm not suggesting resisting any of their actions...I'm suggesting not willingly give any extra information or be any more compliant than I need to be according to law. I always withhold the right to be MORE cooperative if the guy is a nice guy, respectful, and gives an air of "just doing my job" rather than the cocky LEO attitude that we have heard about and many experienced on a rare occasion. I'll say upfront (well I guess at the end) that in general I haven't had any bad run-ins with LEOs.

I believe that the right to not answer is far more powerful than the choice to lie.

That's an interesting way to look at it. Instead of lying, perhaps just ignore the question or even say aloud "I choose not to divulge that information." Good idea.

And hey, if they need to do a quick search of your house, why not let them? Just keep doing what you're doing, it won't be much of a disruption.

Exactly! WTF?!

 

[INGunGuy]

Yeah, you do have to listen to cops and they can do a weapons pat down on you and also to secure your weapons. I mean, aside from being interrupted during your day, I don't think this should be of much concern. Its not like he setting you up to kill you or anything. Give them up, cooperate, get'em back and get on with your day.

Sorry to inform you of this, but you are completely incorrect. No PC or RAS no pat-down, questions, or anything else for that matter. I would really go into this, but I am at work and dont have time, I recommend you read thru this and a few other threads dealing with the law and case law dealing with firearms and traffic stops.

INGunGuy

 

[ranjah6]

Give up your gun, and fight the good fight later in court. Unfortunatley "shall not be infringed" gets worse every day.

 

[ChalupaCabras]

It will totally depend on the officer. If he feels threatened, he will probably ask for your weapon, if he does not feel threatened, he won't.

Part of that will be you, how you act and how you look, and part of that will be him.

[long corroborating story]

A few days ago, I was sick off my rocker, throwing up and suffering violent chills. I was sitting in the car while my wife ran into the store to buy some Gatorade and medicine.... Some hood looking teenager flew up into the spot next to me, and motions for me to roll down my window. Of course, I shot him a sour glance and refused.

The car floors the petal ONE SPACE forward, and the goon hops out with another guy and 3 girls. He then starts hopping around with his hands in the air (and pants nearly on the ground), shouting profanities. After about 20 seconds of this circus (my hand on my Beretta) they went into the store.

I don't know what he wanted, and I don't care.

Moral of the story - if you dress like a hood, you will be treated like one.

 

[jdhaines]

...they went into the store.

Where your wife was? That stuff makes me nervous.

 

[finity]

Unfortunatley "shall not be infringed" gets worse every day.

No it's not.

In fact, quite the opposite is true. We haven't had so many gun rights in many, many years. And the trend pretty much everywhere is toward less infringement.

Don't believe everything you hear at the tea party rallies. All you need to do is look around to see the real truth.