Nazi prison guard found living in U.K.

[Kirk Freeman]

GIVE him his day in court before you guys convict him.

I don't think anyone who deny him a right to trial. He will be afforded due process of law.

If found guilty, he should hang.

I'm not happy with how either of those worked out in the least. Everyone involved should have been tried, and imprisoned at the minimum if found guilty.

The FBI sniper at Ruby Ridge was prosecuted by Boundary County, Idaho prosecutor. A federal judge dismissed the state charges as the sniper was a federal agent.

http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Politics/...s. Weaver's Murder/Ruby Ridge Charge Dropped/

 

[joslar15]

Strange, that even if he is guilty, so many are willing to give him a pass due to his advanced age. If a suspected murderer is able to avoid capture for 70+ years and get a pass, does our criminal justice system serve a purpose?

 

[ATOMonkey]

Strange, that even if he is guilty, so many are willing to give him a pass due to his advanced age. If a suspected murderer is able to avoid capture for 70+ years and get a pass, does our criminal justice system serve a purpose?

Define that purpose and I'll let you know.

 

[orange]

Here and now it would only be revenge, not justice. Let him live out his remaining days in peace.

 

[techres]

Here and now it would only be revenge, not justice. Let him live out his remaining days in peace.

Please help me.

Exactly how many years must pass to transmute justice into revenge? 10? 20? 60? What is that limit?

There is a reason that there is no statute of limitations to certain crimes. Time simply does not wash hands clean of blood.

If the blood is there, then justice requires prosecution.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Please help me.

Exactly how many years must pass to transmute justice into revenge? 10? 20? 60? What is that limit?

There is a reason that there is no statute of limitations to certain crimes. Time simply does not wash hands clean of blood.

If the blood is there, then justice requires prosecution.

i agree his age shouldnt matter IF he is guilty of directly killing people. being a basic guard to me doesnt compute to being on the same level of a war criminal. im in no way standing up for what the nazis did, but i think there are plenty of other people who are guilty instead of low level coffee mules. i think a new generation or maybe the old one before they all die off wanna be able to have their nazi war criminal witch hunt at the expense of possibly an innocent person

 

[dross]

1. I don't know if the guy is innocent or guilty.
2. I don't know how much evidence they have against him.
3. If it comes to trial, I suspect it will be difficult to convict him because of the time that has passed, the probably death of many witnesses, etc...

Certain crimes have no statute of limitations. That's the law. The law can be changed, but currently, that's the law.

I don't have an opinion as to the man's guilt, innocence, or level of culpability.

If there's not enough evidence to convict him, he should go free. If he's guilty of something, he should be punished for that thing of which he is guilty according to the law.

Now, to the subject of his age and to what good this will do.

His age is irrelevant to certain kinds of crimes. If someone thinks differently, please make your case.

The good it will do is the same good any prosecution does. One of the purposes of conviction and punishment is retribution. This isn't the same as revenge. Retribution is the concept that you must pay for your crime. Not only is this just, it has the practical value of deterrence. Others see what happened to you.

If there is anything we want to discourage, it's the kind of thing that happened in Nazi Germany. The future prison guards and torturers and monsters should know that if they choose to do these things, they will never be safe, they will never get to rest and to "live out their days in peace." They need to know that hiding and living safely for decades will not save them if they're caught when they're sixty, or seventy, or ninety.

How is this not justice?

 

[mrjarrell]

It's pretty much impossible to get a fair trial in these cases. Especially, in Germany. Look at the Demjanjuk trial. The Israelis, who had a stake in convicting him, let him go. Then the Germans got hold of him and basically railroaded him. There'll be nothing resembling true justice in this case, one way or the other.

 

[jbombelli]

5 minutes of research into Trawniki will tell you why, IF he was a guard there, he needs to hang. Seriously... some of you have no idea what you're talking about.

Being a guard at Trawniki is enough for me. If they can prove that alone, he needs to hang. Trawniki was a horrible, horrible place, and served a pivotal role in Hitler's Final Solution. Every guard there had an active part in the Holocaust.

As Kirk said earlier, no man who serves the cause of evil should ever be allowed to die in his sleep.

Do a little research.

 

[techres]

...i think a new generation or maybe the old one before they all die off wanna be able to have their nazi war criminal witch hunt at the expense of possibly an innocent person

Seriously?

If you killed my wife, my child, my dad, or my grandfather - I guaranty that I would hunt you down with every resource legally at my disposal until my dying day.

Not because you are a witch, but because you are a murderer.

 

[Bond 281]

Is this a serious post? I have a hard time believing it is, and if it is...wow. Let's bring the discussion back to reality. There is no "blind hatred of anything Nazi". If anything, it's an informed revulsion. Holding persons accountable for the murder over 6 million innocents and engaging in genocide is not "riding a high horse of reality".

As has been said before, I wonder how you'd feel if your family was murdered and it took you 70 years to find their murderer. Would you not press for justice and accountability?

We as Americans like to forget that we slaughtered and imprisoned a continent of people. America was created through a genocide worse than what the Nazis did. Do you have an "informed revulsion" for every American veteran throughout our expansion? If you don't, then you're being an extreme hypocrite. Or how about our own internment of Japanese-Americans? I also can't see how our carpet bombing cities is somehow forgivable. As others have mentioned, prosecution of Nazis are basically witch hunts. People get rabid and start frothing at the mouth at the mere mention of them. Someone mentioned in another thread how we like to think of the Nazis as some soulless beasts spawned straight from hell, creatures of pure evil, instead of humans.

I'm not saying that what they did doesn't warrant punishment, or that it wasn't a terrible thing. All I'm suggesting is that I don't think every man that ever wore a Nazi uniform should be held responsible for the actions of everyone else.

Being a guard at Trawniki is enough for me. If they can prove that alone, he needs to hang. Trawniki was a horrible, horrible place, and served a pivotal role in Hitler's Final Solution. Every guard there had an active part in the Holocaust.
...

Do a little research.

From the Wikipedia article:

In the interests of heightened production, Bartetzko initially maintained relatively decent conditions in Trawniki. He reportedly tolerated illicit trade in food and alcohol, permitted Jewish prisoners to form their own musical band, and even offered opportunities to play soccer. After August 1943, however, conditions deteriorated.

Oh look I did a little research. Sounds like for a time the conditions weren't too terrible and it remained a basic labor camp. Do you know when the guy served there? Maybe he was one of the ones pushing for better treatment so they would be more productive. Maybe he was the one beating them and murdering them. I don't know, and neither do you. We value presumed innocence, not guilt by association. There's no evidence against this guy. Let him be.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Seriously?

If you killed my wife, my child, my dad, or my grandfather - I guaranty that I would hunt you down with every resource legally at my disposal until my dying day.

Not because you are a witch, but because you are a murderer.

i think you misunderstood me.

IF a person is directly responsible for the death of someone illegally then yes they should be hunted down like a dog and killed.

but, my point was to just call witch because he wore a uniform is not right IF he didnt directly cause anyone to die. just my opinion.

 

[orange]

5 minutes of research into Trawniki will tell you why, IF he was a guard there, he needs to hang. Seriously... some of you have no idea what you're talking about.

Being a guard at Trawniki is enough for me. If they can prove that alone, he needs to hang. Trawniki was a horrible, horrible place, and served a pivotal role in Hitler's Final Solution. Every guard there had an active part in the Holocaust.

As Kirk said earlier, no man who serves the cause of evil should ever be allowed to die in his sleep.

Do a little research.

What I remember most keenly from Trawniki is the cold. Outside it was a warm spring day. Inside silent and cold, like I'd stepped into another world ripped out from the landscape surrounding it. The sun didn't shine as brightly. There were no birds there. Streets, barracks, shoes, showers, ovens with racks with metal restraints..still the first thing I recall is the strange cold of the place. Makes me shudder while I write this.

The message has been sent. There'll always be people who deny it ever happened, but more people remember and believe. There's no point in making an example of an old man who might not even remember what he's done. Let him live in peace and die peacefully in his sleep.

 

[jbombelli]

We as Americans like to forget that we slaughtered and imprisoned a continent of people. America was created through a genocide worse than what the Nazis did. Do you have an "informed revulsion" for every American veteran throughout our expansion? If you don't, then you're being an extreme hypocrite. Or how about our own internment of Japanese-Americans? I also can't see how our carpet bombing cities is somehow forgivable. As others have mentioned, prosecution of Nazis are basically witch hunts. People get rabid and start frothing at the mouth at the mere mention of them. Someone mentioned in another thread how we like to think of the Nazis as some soulless beasts spawned straight from hell, creatures of pure evil, instead of humans.

I'm not saying that what they did doesn't warrant punishment, or that it wasn't a terrible thing. All I'm suggesting is that I don't think every man that ever wore a Nazi uniform should be held responsible for the actions of everyone else.



From the Wikipedia article:

Oh look I did a little research. Sounds like for a time the conditions weren't too terrible and it remained a basic labor camp. Do you know when the guy served there? Maybe he was one of the ones pushing for better treatment so they would be more productive. Maybe he was the one beating them and murdering them. I don't know, and neither do you. We value presumed innocence, not guilt by association. There's no evidence against this guy. Let him be.

From the same article: "Almost all of the Trawniki guards were involved in shooting and beating Jews at some point in their careers."

I like how, in your zeal to defend one of these guards, you skip right over that and quote the one thing that might make this forced labor camp slightly less inhumane. Never mind that the Jews there were still being worked to death. That's all good, right? Just so long as they got a little RandR to increase production right?

As far as what happened here in re: the native Americans? Find me someone who was alive 150 years ago and took part in it, and I'll push for his prosecution too.

 

[E5RANGER375]

From the same article: "Almost all of the Trawlinki guards were involved in shooting and beating Jews at some point in their careers."

I like how, in your zeal to defend one of these guards, you skip right over that and quote the one thing that might make this forced labor camp slightly less inhumane.

if he was involved in this then yeah, hang him

 

[CarmelHP]

The things I've learned on INGO:

1. All drugs or medications of any kind are bad unless they're illegal; and,

2. Any control exerted over another person is bad except slavery in the Confederacy; and,

3. All government agents who abuse their office or infringe any right should be hunted down and killed unless they wore a Swastika while doing so.

 

[PatriotPride]

Bond281, your argument has more holes in it than a sieve. Time to find the Tylenol.

 

[PatriotPride]

The things I've learned on INGO:

1. All drugs or medications of any kind are bad unless they're illegal; and,

2. Any control exerted over another person is bad except slavery in the Confederacy; and,

3. All government agents who abuse their office or infringe any right should be hunted down and killed unless they wore a Swastika while doing so.

You're reaching a bit, don't you think? I've yet to see anyone defend the institution of slavery on INGO. I HAVE seen logical arguments for the Constitutional right of the State to regulate what happens within it's borders. There is a difference.

 

[CarmelHP]

You're reaching a bit, don't you think? I've yet to see anyone defend the institution of slavery on INGO. I HAVE seen logical arguments for the Constitutional right of the State to regulate what happens within it's borders. There is a difference.

For a state to have slavery within its borders, yeah, that's what I said. By the same argument, a state could have death camps within its borders, but a bit far afield from the topic.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Bond281, your argument has more holes in it than a sieve. Time to find the Midol - for Relief of your Menstrual Symptoms.

fixed it for you brother