National Debt Tops $18.2 Trillion

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I don't see things changing very much, very soon.

As an example, look at this situation in Scott county with all the HIV cases popping up. If we were really all for small government, maximum freedom, and responsibility, we'd let nature take its course with those doping themselves up. But we can't, we won't. We'll blame the government if they don't supply clean needles or make hospitals take in and treats the ODs or provide them a subsidized living.

There is no appetite for what it will mean to pay this debt off and relieve our children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren from the bondage we're placing them in and living within our means.

 

[dusty88]

I don't see things changing very much, very soon.

As an example, look at this situation in Scott county with all the HIV cases popping up. If we were really all for small government, maximum freedom, and responsibility, we'd let nature take its course with those doping themselves up.

That's not "nature taking its course". As ridiculous as I think the drug war is, the fact needles and syringes are regulated is even more ridiculous.

Would the druggies share needles if they could go buy needles at Walmart? Maybe some of them would, but they might buy new ones simply because it would be a lot more comfortable.

 

[mrjarrell]

Oh I've been paying attention.
That's how I recognized your bellyaching.
I agree, spending needs to be reduced drastically. My point was that you seem to constantly complain, but offer no real-world solutions.
Sure we need to cut spending. Any moron can see that.
My question is HOW?

You're allowed to talk about anything you wish, solution or not.
I just get the impression that you would much rather complain than actually DO something about it.

Well, not being a congresscretin there's little I, or the vast majority of the country can do other than let the cretins in congress know. Many of us have been doing that for years and we've been ignored. I've offered real world solutions, as have many others. Your elected reps have ignored us. Cut, downsize and repeat. It can't get any clearer.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

That's not "nature taking its course". As ridiculous as I think the drug war is, the fact needles and syringes are regulated is even more ridiculous.

Would the druggies share needles if they could go buy needles at Walmart? Maybe some of them would, but they might buy new ones simply because it would be a lot more comfortable.

That's certainly a point to consider. My guess would be yes, even if available for sale, there would still be plenty that would still share them. But I don't don't wish to further derail this thread.

 

[D-Ric902]

Well of course he had little power. But that wasn't the point of your fixed quotes. You suggested that someone who makes significantly different proposals was still suggesting we could "grow out" of the debt.

If people choose not to listen to the truth because they are scared to upset the status quo, then they can't be helped.

I didn't mean to suggest "growing out of it"
that is one of the stupidest things to come out of DC in a long time (which is saying a lot)

It has been used to justify spending

what I mean to suggest is that your vote for congress is the important vote on spending, ask a presidential candidate his position of course, but if he tells you he is going to cut the debt, cut spending, reign in Congress, he is lying to you

but your congressional candidate should be grilled to no end about it, and checked up on.

in depth, not just voting but earmarks, bills sponsored, party line votes.

that is where "The Pauls" fall short and look like every other politician.

(not saying their bad, just politicians, like all the rest)

 

[dusty88]

That's certainly a point to consider. My guess would be yes, even if available for sale, there would still be plenty that would still share them. But I don't don't wish to further derail this thread.

I think it's a good illustration though of why real "change" is so complex, frought with debate, and completely out of reach. When someone asks me if I "support" a particular political issue my answer often depends on whether the proposal is meant only if "everything else stays the same" or "should government really need to be doing this". Two different things.

That's one reason why it's impossible to reel the budget in. The answer is often "well that's minor compared to this..." and "we have to fix this problem" which was often a problem created by the government. And don't forget "I've been paying MY taxes for years. Now it's my turn to get Medicaid, SS, etc etc".

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I think it's a good illustration though of why real "change" is so complex, frought with debate, and completely out of reach. When someone asks me if I "support" a particular political issue my answer often depends on whether the proposal is meant only if "everything else stays the same" or "should government really need to be doing this". Two different things.

That's one reason why it's impossible to reel the budget in. The answer is often "well that's minor compared to this..." and "we have to fix this problem" which was often a problem created by the government. And don't forget "I've been paying MY taxes for years. Now it's my turn to get Medicaid, SS, etc etc".

You got that right. I'll be 62 in a few years and I'm going to sign up for SS as soon as possible and get it while I can. Us senior citizens vote and we'll keep all them Gen Xers and Millenials working to keep our checks coming.

 

[rosefarm10]

It's too late for the fed's. It's too late for Illinois. My theory is to clean up my little corner. Township commissioner, school board, stuff like that. We live within our means and set the best example possible for our township, school district, and our kids. And yes Mr. Obama....I refuse to call him President, I cling to my Faith and my guns with intense tenacity. My Faith overcomes the depression caused by a weak and liberal minded Federal Government and my firearms protect me from same. I just hope there are enough of us left when the SHTF.

 

[ModernGunner]

Good change it'll be $22 Trillion before the Liar-In-Chief leaves office. More, if he has his way.

 

[1DOWN4UP]

Time for a good old fashion T-PARTY.......

 

[actaeon277]

Not the best time to lurch toward austerity. With interest rates this low, it's a good time to rebuild our infrastructure at minimum borrowing costs.
Not the right moment for lurch to austerity | Lawrence H. Summers

Weren't we supposed to do that with the "stimulus"?

 

[MisterChester]

I don't see things changing very much, very soon.

As an example, look at this situation in Scott county with all the HIV cases popping up. If we were really all for small government, maximum freedom, and responsibility, we'd let nature take its course with those doping themselves up. But we can't, we won't. We'll blame the government if they don't supply clean needles or make hospitals take in and treats the ODs or provide them a subsidized living.

There is no appetite for what it will mean to pay this debt off and relieve our children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren from the bondage we're placing them in and living within our means.

Or we could do what European countries are starting to do.. Moving towards single-use syringes and phasing out the traditional ones. That way the risk of getting an illness from syringe use is significantly lowered.

 

[drop45]

Meh! We just need a few million more illegals in this country and THEN things will turn around for the better, at least that's what I hear from our elected officials. I really think 10 to 20 million irate taxpayers in DC holding pitchforks and screaming at the idiots in charge will have better results. Let me know the date.

 

[jbmayes2000]

Oh I've been paying attention.
That's how I recognized your bellyaching.
I agree, spending needs to be reduced drastically. My point was that you seem to constantly complain, but offer no real-world solutions.
Sure we need to cut spending. Any moron can see that.
My question is HOW?

You're allowed to talk about anything you wish, solution or not.
I just get the impression that you would much rather complain than actually DO something about it.

This is unfair to ask of any one person and that's initially the problem. Everyone wants to vote in a president that has some amazing ideas or creative ways of fixing it and we will NEVER find a single person that can fix everything. It takes a team of people to WORK TOGETHER to find the best solution. I can't think of anything more complex than attempting to run a government. It's too bad they don't ever see themselves as a team trying to fix the nations biggest problems. Instead it's like 80% lawyers who are accustomed to arguing a side regardless of whether it's good or bad.

 

[Twangbanger]

...It's not going anywhere "positive" unless we have some unpredictable form of growth, akin to a technological revolution.

It's theoretically possible to continue to see incomes decline relative to inflation, and for people to accept the change as we lose wealth...

I think there's a lot of good observations there. I absolutely believe the first sentence of your second paragraph is what will happen. Middle class incomes and prosperity will continue to dwindle, while political arguments center on whose fault it is, and stupid social issues...and while more immigrants are allowed in, and trade deals with brutal sub-par countries continue to send jobs away. What are we going to do? Leave and go someplace better? No. We're going to shelter in-place, bch about it, and blame whichever party doesn't agree with our social views. Like some on this thread are already doing. Or we'll continue to clamor for $15 hamburger-flipper wages, while doing nothing to address the substantive issues. Like some on other threads are doing.

More people clamoring for services, less tax base to pay for those services...it all adds up to massive austerity. If we do not choose that austerity voluntarily within our sphere of choices, it will be forced upon us involuntarily by powers we have no control over. And experience in other countries has shown that free, voting citizens absolutely will not choose austerity at the voting booth, if they think it can be avoided within their lifetimes.

So, 1) Train Wreck...2) Blame the side whose social views don't agree with yours...3) Rinse, lather, repeat. Politicians use donations from the Hedge Fund folks, bankers, and currency speculators to buy your vote - send your jobs away - then use your need for entitlements and services to buy your vote again. They've got the game rigged, coming and going.

...It takes a team of people to WORK TOGETHER to find the best solution. I can't think of anything more complex than attempting to run a government. It's too bad they don't ever see themselves as a team trying to fix the nations biggest problems. Instead it's like 80% lawyers who are accustomed to arguing a side regardless of whether it's good or bad.

You win the internet today.

 

[Leadeye]

Here are a few charts to clear up this issue;

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   United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
   ​
   en.wikipedia.org960 × 720Search by image
   Total Debt $ and % to GDP 2000–2013
   ​
   
   
   

Related images:









US Federal Debt as Percent of GDP since World War II, with presidential terms marked.

Now you know.

k

That you Ross?

 

[BugI02]

Perhaps McArthur was right, vis a vis the chinese

 

[BugI02]

I've noticed you have a penchant for condemning the powers that be. You are quick to find fault, but I rarely see you offer an alternative.
Since you are so discontented with the course of the county's political agenda, why not offer your services to turn the country around?

You seem to have identified a good bit of the nation's ills. Why not actually do something about it, besides bellyache?

So what's your solution? I'm not seeing much substantive coming from you except breathing on mr jarrel. Will that solve our problems? Does it somehow make you feel better? So what's the federal budget - 3.9 trillion for 2015? Let's say thru a combiunation of higher taxes (that's right, get used to it) and decreased spending you could save 10% of that . Now let's say you could devote all of that to debt reduction (unlikely since congress controls spending) that would mean 0.39 trillion in debt reduction per year or only slightly more than 45 years to pay down the debt to zero IF THERE WERE NO ACCUMULATING INTEREST COSTS - but of course we know there are interest costs, so even longer than that. What have you got for a grand idea to put us on the path to fixing that problem? You commit the same sin you criticize. Do enlighten us!

 

[BugI02]

Well, not being a congresscretin there's little I, or the vast majority of the country can do other than let the cretins in congress know. Many of us have been doing that for years and we've been ignored. I've offered real world solutions, as have many others. Your elected reps have ignored us. Cut, downsize and repeat. It can't get any clearer.

Kind of weak. I expected better from you. Deficit is 4.5 times federal budget and growing. You can't cut your way out of that and you can't tax your way out of that. You MIGHT be able to get people to accept cuts their entitlements and higher taxes if you could make an absolutely convincing case that those monies would be used ONLY to reduce the deficit and that ALL parts of the budget would feel the pain. 5% increase in taxes across the board and a 5% cut to all government spending. No excuses, no exceptions learn to make do with less. Then cap the budget at that amount with an inflationary adjustment going forward.

 

[Bennettjh]

That's a lot of graphs.