Mosin Nagant 91/30 7.65x54R

[johntheplinker]

They're solid basic rifles that shoot a powerful round.
If the bore is good and it's in decent shape, keep it, unless you want the money from selling it.
Personally, my favorite MN is the Finnish M39.

Yessir. THE absolutely finest version of the MN. Kinda favor them myself.

A few of the dozen or so Ukko Pekkas I have.

 

[two70]

Yes, the .30-06 cartridge has potential to be loaded for better performance than the 7.62x54R. However, in practice it's not that simple. The 91/30 has a barrel length of just under 29", while the M1 Garand and the 1903A3 were only 24". Also, the M1 is limited in what it can be fed due to its gas system and op-rod design. Finally, the .30-06 M2 Ball round issued during WWII was downloaded from it's maximum potential due to safety concerns with existing range facilities.

So when you look at the numbers on paper, during the time period that these rounds were actually employed through the weapons they were designed for, a Russian soldier shooting a Mosin actually had a ballistic advantage of about 180fps over a GI with an M1 (roughly 2880 vs 2700, although these numbers vary a bit depending on the source) shooting a similar (147 vs 150gr) bullet weight. Practically speaking, though, they were close enough that the differences were negligible, and I'd still rather have the M1!

True but that was not the conversation, the conversation was in terms of use for hunting in Alaska. Modern hunting loads in a modern .30-06 will match or beat 7.62x54r even from a long barrel and I doubt most Alaskans hunting with a Mosin have refrained from cutting it down to a more manageable length either.

 

[92FSTech]

True but that was not the conversation, the conversation was in terms of use for hunting in Alaska. Modern hunting loads in a modern .30-06 will match or beat 7.62x54r even from a long barrel and I doubt most Alaskans hunting with a Mosin have refrained from cutting it down to a more manageable length either.

Yep, and that's pretty much what I said in the very first sentence of my post. We're in agreement, sir . I just wanted to point out that they are very similar...close enough in fact that it can go either way depending upon numerous factors. It's also close enough that I don't think whatever you're shooting at in a hunting application would feel the difference in "power" between the cartridges. The -06 is going to be a preferable hunting cartridge, though, due to the availability of modern loadings and the superior selection of bullet designs available.

 

[ed1838]

Anyone have any experience with 91/30? Are they good rifles? I've got one I've had for a long time that I've never shot Thinking about thinning the herd and wondering if it's worth keeping.

I dont have one and feel like I need one prices have sure went up

 

[ed1838]

What is the difference between a 91/30 and the M44? Looking at images it looks shorter is it better or same. Seems the M44s I have seen listed for sale are higher priced.

 

[04FXSTS]

Neat guns, I have two 91/30's, one M38 and one M44 and all are fun to shoot. One 91/30 is somewhat beat up the other is nice for it's age. The M38 is the most beat up so probably saw a fair amount of action the M44 is really nice and probably did not see any combat being manufactured in 1948. The M38 or M44 are good to take if the range is crowded, a few rounds with a fireball the size of a pumpkin causes people to move away. The nicer 91/30 was the last one I bought and paid $82.25 to the door with my C&R license. Jim.

 

[Mongo59]

What is the difference between a 91/30 and the M44? Looking at images it looks shorter is it better or same. Seems the M44s I have seen listed for sale are higher priced.

M44 is a carbine version. They will make you ears bleed they are so loud. Fun to shoot and will lay across your back while on a 4 wheeler. I like the Polish ones that have an 11 in an oval. The fit and finish is so much nicer...

 

[johntheplinker]

What is the difference between a 91/30 and the M44? Looking at images it looks shorter is it better or same. Seems the M44s I have seen listed for sale are higher priced.

The 44 is a carbine version, not only is it shorter but also has a folding bayonet. Many were imported in like new or close to new condition because many were made at the very end or after WWII.
The 91/30 is a bonafide rifle, detachable bayonet. Many were used hard and put up wet. Might look new but during the cold war the Soviets did a full scale refurbishment on many of their older weapons. Basically stripped them down to last screw, refinished everything then threw them back together. Also many millions more were made compared to the M44.
Personally I preferred the 91/30 over the M44. Longer sight radius, a little less recoil, less obnoxious. Plus a little more historically significant in general.
As Mongo59 said, searching for a non Soviet version od a M44 might be worthwhile as they were made at least a little better due to lack of wartime pressures.
Then there's the Finns...

 

[johntheplinker]

Neat guns, I have two 91/30's, one M38 and one M44 and all are fun to shoot. One 91/30 is somewhat beat up the other is nice for it's age. The M38 is the most beat up so probably saw a fair amount of action the M44 is really nice and probably did not see any combat being manufactured in 1948. The M38 or M44 are good to take if the range is crowded, a few rounds with a fireball the size of a pumpkin causes people to move away. The nicer 91/30 was the last one I bought and paid $82.25 to the door with my C&R license. Jim.

M38s as a rule tend to have poorer condition barrels. Being issued mostly to troops who had other primary jobs besides infantry they weren't maintained as well plus when it was discovered how handy a carbine was in closer terrain a lot got heavy use in city fighting. That resulted in the M44 since a big shortcoming of the M38 was lack of a bayonet.

 

[ed1838]

M38s as a rule tend to have poorer condition barrels. Being issued mostly to troops who had other primary jobs besides infantry they weren't maintained as well plus when it was discovered how handy a carbine was in closer terrain a lot got heavy use in city fighting. That resulted in the M44 since a big shortcoming of the M38 was lack of a bayonet.

now I will be looking for a 91/30

 

[johntheplinker]

now I will be looking for a 91/30

Biggest thing with buying a surplus firearm for shooting is safety. Second is barrel condition. Way down the list is matching numbers and external condition.

 

[Mongo59]

Speaking of safety, I had an import marked 7mm Spanish Mauser they cut corners on marking and put it as .308 Win!

 

[Firehawk]

I’ve had a couple and I like them, but I like old military guns for what they are and I don’t expect modern day performance from them. I my first one shot really well, inch and a half groups at 100 yards with iron sights. But I was 20 years old at the time and uneducated about corrosive surplus ammo and I corroded the barrel out. I got a another one for parts and swapped the barreled action, sanded and polyurethaned the stock, installed a bent bolt kit, and a modern scope. It’s no collector piece but I like it and it has a special place in my heart as my first gun I bought and my first gun project. Also, they were going for $100 when I got mine, not sure I’d pay todays prices for one though.

 

[two70]

Speaking of safety, I had an import marked 7mm Spanish Mauser they cut corners on marking and put it as .308 Win!

So it was marked but the actual conversion to .308 wasn't completed? It's probably safer as a 7mm though, if I remember correctly those conversions weren't meant to shoot full power modern .308.

 

[Mongo59]

So it was marked but the actual conversion to .308 wasn't completed? It's probably safer as a 7mm though, if I remember correctly those conversions weren't meant to shoot full power modern .308.

It was one that had been changed from 7mm Mauser to 7.62x51 nato with only the two front lugs to lock the bolt that they marked .308 Win like it is the same thing. The .308's have the third lug like the 8mm Mauser but they just left someone's butt hanging out...

 

[johntheplinker]

It was one that had been changed from 7mm Mauser to 7.62x51 nato with only the two front lugs to lock the bolt that they marked .308 Win like it is the same thing. The .308's have the third lug like the 8mm Mauser but they just left someone's butt hanging out...

Oy. That could get ugly fast. IIRC some of those earlier Spanish models didn't have the best steel in them to start with. I know a lot of people don't consider the FR-7 (Model 93 Spanish Mauser converted to 7.62x51 with Cetme sights) safe to shoot except with very light loads. The FR-8s were made with better steel but also used the 98 action and are fine with full house military ammo.

Wait, we started talking Mosins and now its Mausers. Gotta love it! What's next? Berthiers?

 

[ed1838]

View attachment 183461

I’ve had a couple and I like them, but I like old military guns for what they are and I don’t expect modern day performance from them. I my first one shot really well, inch and a half groups at 100 yards with iron sights. But I was 20 years old at the time and uneducated about corrosive surplus ammo and I corroded the barrel out. I got a another one for parts and swapped the barreled action, sanded and polyurethaned the stock, installed a bent bolt kit, and a modern scope. It’s no collector piece but I like it and it has a special place in my heart as my first gun I bought and my first gun project. Also, they were going for $100 when I got mine, not sure I’d pay todays prices for one though.

in my search for one I see 400 to 500 for most common asking price and some up to 800. I guess the days are gone for a budget friendly one. I was thinking around 300

 

[Firehawk]

in my search for one I see 400 to 500 for most common asking price and some up to 800. I guess the days are gone for a budget friendly one. I was thinking around 300

If you don’t care about “numbers matching” and collector value you can find them cheaper. Watch the classifieds here sometimes ones get posted for less.

 

[ed1838]

If you don’t care about “numbers matching” and collector value you can find them cheaper. Watch the classifieds here sometimes ones get posted for less.

I am a newbie here not a paying supporter yet and have not made the 50 posts not able to reply in that section. I did see a Carcano in the classifieds not was interesting. Just got bite by the surplus bug so everything looks interesting.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

What's next? Berthiers?

Berthiers are just dead sexy...