More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time

[henktermaat]

According to Gallup Poll:

More Americans "Pro-Life" Than "Pro-Choice" for First Time

 

[IUGradStudent]

 

[CulpeperMM]

That's surprising, and great news. Thanks for posting this. Good to see some good news occasionally.

 

[leftsock]

People are welcome to stick to their personal beliefs on the life/choice debate as long as the gov. keeps their laws off of my body.
Personal choice and options are good things.

 

[IUGradStudent]

People are welcome to stick to their personal beliefs on the life/choice debate as long as the gov. keeps their laws off of my body.
Personal choice and options are good things.

But, the law can tell us what to do with our bodies if we try to use our bodies to harm other people. Personal choice and options are good things, so long as we don't harm anyone else in using them.

 

[leftsock]

But, the law can tell us what to do with our bodies if we try to use our bodies to harm other people. Personal choice and options are good things, so long as we don't harm anyone else in using them.

What? Freedom, choice, and options are good as long as someone else says it's okay? I'm taking the concepts of natural and common law into consideration; of course separate adults aren't harmed or caused loss. But your children are yours; they're your offspring; if you want to be a bad parent, it's your call. But let's not manipulate the government to push personal beliefs and will upon each other.

 

[CulpeperMM]

"Life" comes first in "Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness".

We should defend the defenseless. Call murder what it is.

What the Freedom of Choice Act does is force offices that didn't do abortions to do them under the threat of criminal prosecution, not just removing federal grants or funding. that means forcing hospitals and OB/GYN offices to commit murder. It is just sick, and only a raving lunatic could think otherwise.

Obama, Pelosi, and that crowd are blood thirsty cowards. They want to see more innocent blood.

 

[paddling_man]

 

[IUGradStudent]

What? Freedom, choice, and options are good as long as someone else says it's okay? I'm taking the concepts of natural and common law into consideration; of course separate adults aren't harmed or caused loss. But your children are yours; they're your offspring; if you want to be a bad parent, it's your call. But let's not manipulate the government to push personal beliefs and will upon each other.

I'm not advocating any manipulation or pushing of personal beliefs and will. I'm saying freedom is good but freedom used to harm others should be stopped by the authorities. And by "should" I mean 1) morally should and 2) in a just political system would.

 

[RachelMarie]

EXACTLY! I'll be staying FAR from this topic. I am anti drama!

 

[leftsock]

I'm not advocating any manipulation or pushing of personal beliefs and will. I'm saying freedom is good but freedom used to harm others should be stopped by the authorities. And by "should" I mean 1) morally should and 2) in a just political system would.

Well heck, sounds like we're in agreement! You do what you want with your offspring and I'll do what I want with mine. Let's leave the "authorities" out of this; all they do is push someone else's belief and will.

 

[paddling_man]

EXACTLY! I'll be staying FAR from this topic. I am anti drama!

I'll just lob this one in then run...

No one (hardly no one) will reject the idea that one person's rights end where the next person's nose begins.

Dance around the white elephant all you want, the crux of the matter is when does the child begin, ie. when is it a person with rights.

Point of conception as a fertilized egg?
xx of weeks?
Final trimester?
Anytime still in the womb?

This is the scale where the far (moral, not fiscal) right is on one end (fertilized egg) and the far liberal left (anytime still in the womb) is on the other. Most common folks, I suspect, falling somewhere in the middle range, with most having a different view of their personal decision and the one they would vote to impose on others.

We hear from the most vocal at the extreme points of view.

Each side supports their argument with the Bible and/or pseudo-science. Good luck finding that answer.

All I know is what is right for me as my faith and belief tells me. And, "no," it is personal answer.

 

[CarmelHP]

This is the scale where the far (moral, not fiscal) right is on one end (fertilized egg) and the far liberal left (anytime still in the womb) is on the other. Most common folks, I suspect, falling somewhere in the middle range, with most having a different view of their personal decision and the one they would vote to impose on others.

Wrong, the far left, such as Obama and Dawn Johnsen, say it's some undefined time after a live birth from a botched attempted abortion.

 

[RachelMarie]

I'm not saying I believe abortion should be legal...by any means. I'm saying, there are a few things I do not discuss with anyone....Abortion being one. Because, no matter my belief...someone will want to start an argument. I dont like to argue. That's all!

 

[CarmelHP]

What? Freedom, choice, and options are good as long as someone else says it's okay? I'm taking the concepts of natural and common law into consideration; of course separate adults aren't harmed or caused loss. But your children are yours; they're your offspring; if you want to be a bad parent, it's your call. But let's not manipulate the government to push personal beliefs and will upon each other.

What, you own them? Utter and complete nonsense. If you own them then I suppose it OK to kill them, use them for sexual gratification, or whatever else you could use chattle property for.

 

[IUGradStudent]

Well heck, sounds like we're in agreement! You do what you want with your offspring and I'll do what I want with mine. Let's leave the "authorities" out of this; all they do is push someone else's belief and will.

Hrm, well maybe we're in agreement, but I'm not sure yet. In general I agree that the government should not tell us how to raise our kids -- they should pretty much stay out of that. If that is what you mean by "you do what you want with your offspring and I'll do what I want with mine." At the same time, don't we agree there are limits to "doing what you want with your offspring"? Or is it your position that a parent can do anything they want to their kid and the authorities can never step in?

And, I very much disagree that all the authorities do is push someone else's beliefs and will. Even Libertarians don't think that. There are legitimate functions of government, primarily the defense of life, liberty, and property. The family is the fundamental unit of government, but when the family becomes destructive of those ends, the state can intervene.

 

[Fletch]

And, I very much disagree that all the authorities do is push someone else's beliefs and will. Even Libertarians don't think that.

Oh?

There are legitimate functions of government, primarily the defense of life, liberty, and property. The family is the fundamental unit of government, but when the family becomes destructive of those ends, the state can intervene.

This reads to me as a contradiction of the above.

All government, in the form of monopolistic enforcement of social contract, is based on threats or acts of violence. The root word of "law enforcement" is "force". This violence is threatened or performed precisely to impose the will of others onto the individual against whom it is being employed. Without violence and without conflict of wills, there is no government in the form to which we colloquially refer.

 

[leftsock]

At the same time, don't we agree there are limits to "doing what you want with your offspring"? Or is it your position that a parent can do anything they want to their kid and the authorities can never step in?

Who are these "authorities" you keep referring to?

Wouldn't you consider yourself to be the authority in your life?

 

[leftsock]

What, you own them? Utter and complete nonsense. If you own them then I suppose it OK to kill them, use them for sexual gratification, or whatever else you could use chattle property for.

Come on CarmelHP, quit trying to be manipulative. Your comparison is disgusting and uncalled for. If you're going to talk about the use of children for sexual gratification, there are probably plenty of pedophile boards out there for you.

These posts are an attempt to ask "how much government do we want in our lives?" I would suspect that the general response would be "less," yet forcing abortion to be illegal would seem to be a contradiction of that. Also, forcing doctors to perform abortions with the threat of lawsuits would be an invasion of their personal choice. Some things are morally wrong, like removing an individual's choice.

If we want less gov. control in our lives, let's have it that way and stop saying "less government control in our lives, unless we disagree with another's choice, and then there needs to be immediate intervention by the authorities."

 

[jeremy]

What about the percentage of Americans who just don't f*cking give a d*mn?