Minneapolis Police Shoot Unarmed Woman In Pajamas — With Bodycams Off

[T.Lex]

One of the things I find amazing is the massive amounts of worldwide coverage this is getting. I've been asked about it several times, since I've been here.

America's gun issues - and police shootings - are always international news events when the victim is not USian. And sometimes, even when they are.

Remember the guy down south who shot the Japanese exchange student who rushed at him? That was, arguably, harder to explain.

Some of it, IMHO, is a "holier than thou" human instinct. Other places don't have gun freedom, so they prefer to look down their noses at this kind of event wrapped in the warmly condescending duvet of "That doesn't happen here."

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Does not sound like the kind of neighborhood where folks would be throwing things at police cars late at night.

If kids didn't exist, I'd agree. But since they do (neverminding that idiots aren't confined to their own neighborhoods), I disagree.

This. Drunks, idiots, teens, and those who are some combination exist in all neighborhoods. Maybe not in the same proportion, but they do. I've locked up a drunk teen who chased his mother around the house with a knife because she wouldn't let him take the car to an after prom party (because he was drunk) in the Geist area.

Conversely, I've had a father and son stop to check on me when I was laying next to my car fishing a stick that got caught in my undercarriage out in a neighborhood that waas, at the time, the 2nd highest for murders in the county. They were afraid I'd been shot (a reasonable conclusion) and were checking on me.

Neighborhoods matter, but individuals matter more.

 

[rhino]

This. Drunks, idiots, teens, and those who are some combination exist in all neighborhoods. Maybe not in the same proportion, but they do. I've locked up a drunk teen who chased his mother around the house with a knife because she wouldn't let him take the car to an after prom party (because he was drunk) in the Geist area.

Conversely, I've had a father and son stop to check on me when I was laying next to my car fishing a stick that got caught in my undercarriage out in a neighborhood that waas, at the time, the 2nd highest for murders in the county. They were afraid I'd been shot (a reasonable conclusion) and were checking on me.

Neighborhoods matter, but individuals matter more.

They took your shoes, didn't they.

 

[indiucky]

They took your shoes, didn't they.

Not just any shoes...His favorites...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Not just any shoes...His favorites...

Blue suede monk straps?

 

[jsharmon7]

I think it's interesting that from time of dispatch to shots fired is only a few seconds according to the transcripts. There will be a delay between the victim calling and the run being dispatched due to information gather, typing it up, etc., but it seems as though they were already on-scene and speaking to her when the call came out.

 

[T.Lex]

I think it's interesting that from time of dispatch to shots fired is only a few seconds according to the transcripts. There will be a delay between the victim calling and the run being dispatched due to information gather, typing it up, etc., but it seems as though they were already on-scene and speaking to her when the call came out.

I was wondering if that would come up.

I do not know what system they used to record that. To save space, some systems do not record the time when nothing is happening. Otherwise, there's an significant increase in capacity need, because you have to time-stamp dead air. For efficiency, if there is dead air greater than a certain threshold, they just don't record it. If it is less than the threshold, it is recorded. I believe that is usually a user-controlled setting.

My strong suspicion is that there is more time delay between several of those transmissions.

 

[jsharmon7]

I was wondering if that would come up.

I do not know what system they used to record that. To save space, some systems do not record the time when nothing is happening. Otherwise, there's an significant increase in capacity need, because you have to time-stamp dead air. For efficiency, if there is dead air greater than a certain threshold, they just don't record it. If it is less than the threshold, it is recorded. I believe that is usually a user-controlled setting.

My strong suspicion is that there is more time delay between several of those transmissions.

You may be absolutely right. I would think that a department the size of MPD would have near constant radio traffic though. I'm not familiar with them specifically, but in Indy there wouldn't be much delay between transmissions.

 

[d.kaufman]

To me it definitely doesn't look good for the officer to decline being interviewed for several days at least so far

 

[T.Lex]

You may be absolutely right. I would think that a department the size of MPD would have near constant radio traffic though. I'm not familiar with them specifically, but in Indy there wouldn't be much delay between transmissions.

It depends on whether it is channel-specific. Some larger agencies have different districts on different freqs, so depending on the level of activity in that area, the transmission activity could vary greatly.

To me it definitely doesn't look good for the officer to decline being interviewed for several days at least so far

That's the easiest thing to explain: he's smart enough to listen to his attorney.

 

[HoughMade]

...That's the easiest thing to explain: he's smart enough to listen to his attorney.

5th Amendment doesn't apply in the court of public opinion....alas.

 

[Benp]

That's the easiest thing to explain: he's smart enough to listen to his attorney.

Absolutely, he had better not be saying anything other than to his attorney!

 

[Benp]

5th Amendment doesn't apply in the court of public opinion....alas.

The court of public opinion will not put him behind bars, otherwise OJ.. well that's not a good example.

 

[T.Lex]

5th Amendment doesn't apply in the court of public opinion....alas.

It also kinda doesn't help him in terms of IA interviews.

But, for a f-up this big, it's probably worth getting fired to avoid giving a statement.

 

[Route 45]

Link to dispatch audio:

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ea9_1500323077

 

[T.Lex]

Link to dispatch audio:

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ea9_1500323077

I believe that is simply a repackaged version of the scanner traffic that was released earlier in the week.

If that is a real-time recording, then it doesn't leave much time for her to walk the 100 yards or so (reportedly) from where she was to get to the police car.

 

[Alpo]

This. Drunks, idiots, teens, and those who are some combination exist in all neighborhoods. Maybe not in the same proportion, but they do. I've locked up a drunk teen who chased his mother around the house with a knife because she wouldn't let him take the car to an after prom party (because he was drunk) in the Geist area.

Conversely, I've had a father and son stop to check on me when I was laying next to my car fishing a stick that got caught in my undercarriage out in a neighborhood that waas, at the time, the 2nd highest for murders in the county. They were afraid I'd been shot (a reasonable conclusion) and were checking on me.

Neighborhoods matter, but individuals matter more.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BehindBlueI's again.

 

[JTScribe]

It depends on whether it is channel-specific. Some larger agencies have different districts on different freqs, so depending on the level of activity in that area, the transmission activity could vary greatly.



That's the easiest thing to explain: he's smart enough to listen to his attorney.

Seems odd, aren't police required to cooperate with IA or their equivalent? I can understanding having a lawyer or union rep present, but declining entirely seems shady.

 

[HoughMade]

Seems odd, aren't police required to cooperate with IA or their equivalent? I can understanding having a lawyer or union rep present, but declining entirely seems shady.

Maybe, or losing his job is less of a concern than losing his freedom...or he has a strong enough union that he doesn't even fear losing his job.

Sure there are evidence rules (some places) about the inadmissibility of internal reviews and such with the attendant exceptions and technicalities....but you never have to worry about the admissibility of a statement that was never made.

I won't hold shutting up against him.

 

[T.Lex]

Seems odd, aren't police required to cooperate with IA or their equivalent? I can understanding having a lawyer or union rep present, but declining entirely seems shady.

Maybe, or losing his job is less of a concern than losing his freedom...or he has a strong enough union that he doesn't even fear losing his job.

Sure there are evidence rules (some places) about the inadmissibility of internal reviews and such with the attendant exceptions and technicalities....but you never have to worry about the admissibility of a statement that was never made.

I won't hold shutting up against him.

Yeah, to normal people, it is totally reasonable to think the behavior is shady.

To lawyers, it is a rational choice to say nothing rather than risk saying the wrong thing. Or the right thing the wrong way and having it be an issue later.

I think there are other INGO threads that mention a case called Garrity. It allows police departments to compel a statement from an officer, even if that statement is against his interests. In practice, it can get tricky.