Medals for Drone "Pilots"

[rambone]

 

[iChokePeople]

But no comparison in performance. Once attended a talk from a 71 pilot. He said that he was still not allowed to tell us how fast he has flown, but that it was faster than any rifle bullet ever fired.

Yes, I get that, and have some experience planning SR71 missions. And your pilot was exaggerating. The point was that Powers thought he was untouchable for a while, too, until one day...

 

[iwearcowboyboots]

I didn't read the article about UAV pilots and PTSD, but I can imagine it would be hard to watch allies and friendlies be killed while surveilling in an unarmed UAV and not be able to do anything to stop it

The UAV pilots/PTSD article was less about witnessing friendlies and more about "feelings of guilt and remorse that can result from even justified drone strikes that kill only enemy combatants."

 

[Blackhawk2001]

But no comparison in performance. Once attended a talk from a 71 pilot. He said that he was still not allowed to tell us how fast he has flown, but that it was faster than any rifle bullet ever fired.

And at altitude, there was a 7 knot difference between Vne (velocity to never exceed - a structural limitation) and stall speed - the speed at which the aircraft would stop flying and fall out of the sky.

I've seen a NASA U-2 wheeled back into a hangar at Roosevelt Rhodes (?) Naval Air Station in Puerto Rico in 1995 after Hurricane Marilyn went through. We weren't allowed to look into the cockpit, but it's as impressive up close as it looks in the air.

 

[indyjoe]

Yes, I get that, and have some experience planning SR71 missions. And your pilot was exaggerating. The point was that Powers thought he was untouchable for a while, too, until one day...

Same as the whole tank vs anti-tank game.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

The UAV pilots/PTSD article was less about witnessing friendlies and more about "feelings of guilt and remorse that can result from even justified drone strikes that kill only enemy combatants."

Yes, I can see that. Unlike Crunchies, jet pilots are more used to seeing the results of their combat actions from much further away, and they don't have the sorts of anger engendered by seeing friends and comrades killed close up that the Infantry or other ground-based combat arms do.

 

[iChokePeople]

Same as the whole tank vs anti-tank game.

Exactly.

 

[actaeon277]

If they need something for promotion or retention, find something else.
To get people in subs they pay slightly more.
To retain a nuc, they pay to retain (less expensive than training a new nuc)
Although I guess a good conduct medal is lame.
And, for my sea service ribbon, I just had to spend months at sea.
So, I guess there are equivalents.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

If they need something for promotion or retention, find something else.
To get people in subs they pay slightly more.
To retain a nuc, they pay to retain (less expensive than training a new nuc)
Although I guess a good conduct medal is lame.
And, for my sea service ribbon, I just had to spend months at sea.
So, I guess there are equivalents.

In my experience, most fighter pilots aren't motivated by the money or the possibility of getting awards; most of them are there to fly the By-God-Hottest-Aircraft-in-the-World. Pilots are already getting extra pay, so I'm not sure what else you could offer them.

As to your Navy experience, well . . . everyone knows Nukes are crazies; SPAM in a CAN. . .

 

[gunman41mag]

Do they first have to beat the PLAYSTATION 3 BATTLE FIELD game before they are able to play for real

 

[ATOMonkey]

In my experience, most fighter pilots aren't motivated by the money or the possibility of getting awards; most of them are there to fly the By-God-Hottest-Aircraft-in-the-World. Pilots are already getting extra pay, so I'm not sure what else you could offer them.

As to your Navy experience, well . . . everyone knows Nukes are crazies; SPAM in a CAN. . .

Their own plane is what they really want.

We have a lot more fly-boys than seats to put them in.

 

[Fargo]

Their own plane is what they really want.

We have a lot more fly-boys than seats to put them in.

Yeah, I have a good buddy who is a USAF pilot who was recently rotated into flying drones. He is PISSED!

I've got no problem with drone pilots being eligible for medals. They are pulling the trigger and are in a high-stress position where if they don't kill the enemy friendlies get killed, or if they screw up they kill friendlies. I have no issue with them being in the running for service awards.

Joe

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Their own plane is what they really want.

We have a lot more fly-boys than seats to put them in.

Having more pilots than aircraft is a different situation entirely. The Army is the only branch I know that typically has only the number of aircrew slots to fill the exact number of assigned aircraft. Other services generally have 1.5 or 2 per crew position because the aircraft may be expected to operate "round-the-clock", but aircrews can't do that day after day.

Only in recent years have Army Guard aviation units been allowed to exceed their MTOE manning for crew slots. When we were flying Hueys, the typical Assault Helicopter Company MTOE (Modified Table of Organization & Equipment) authorized two pilots and one crew chief per aircraft assigned, including the Company Commander. That made for a mighty thin manning table when the operations tempo was high, because it also meant that the same aircrew that was flying the missions also had to be performing the routine maintenance on the aircraft and conducting mission planning for subsequent missions. It doesn't take many days of that before crew efficiency starts to deteriorate and accidents start to happen.

Air Force and Navy flight crews can generally expect to fly a mission every two or three days, except in rare circumstances.

 

[ATOMonkey]

That's only when on deployment. There are a bunch of AF, Navy, and MC pilots sitting on their hands just waiting for flight time.

The Harrier is a great (or maybe bad) example of too few planes. The average Harrier pilot gets maybe 8 flight hours a month, because there are too few planes and they require about 8 hours in the hanger for every hour they spend in the sky.

Then you have all of the reserve pilots just waiting for seat to open up. I worked with a reserve pilot who waited 10 years for an F-16 slot to open up.

 

[DWS]

Yeah, I have a good buddy who is a USAF pilot who was recently rotated into flying drones. He is PISSED!

I've got no problem with drone pilots being eligible for medals. They are pulling the trigger and are in a high-stress position where if they don't kill the enemy friendlies get killed, or if they screw up they kill friendlies. I have no issue with them being in the running for service awards.

Joe

Well said....

 

[GBuck]

High Stress + Enormous Expectations + One of the highest suicide rates in the military + Saving troops' lives + Striking blows to the enemy = Medals (in my book)

 

[EOD Guy]

I can see Achievement or Commendation medals for UAV folks but anythingmore degrades medals those who eat, sleep and crap in danger's backyard. As an EOD guy, I would think I earned my Bronze Star, Commendation and Achievement medals for wht I did on my Iraq and Afghan tours...not in a cube a few thousand miles away.

 

[IndyDave1776]

In my experience, most fighter pilots aren't motivated by the money or the possibility of getting awards; most of them are there to fly the By-God-Hottest-Aircraft-in-the-World. Pilots are already getting extra pay, so I'm not sure what else you could offer them.

As to your Navy experience, well . . . everyone knows Nukes are crazies; SPAM in a CAN. . .

Tailhook, with no consequences afterwards? (not advocating it, just coming up with an answer likely to generate a response!)

 

[actaeon277]

I can see Achievement or Commendation medals for UAV folks but anythingmore degrades medals those who eat, sleep and crap in danger's backyard. As an EOD guy, I would think I earned my Bronze Star, Commendation and Achievement medals for wht I did on my Iraq and Afghan tours...not in a cube a few thousand miles away.

Not to diminish, but what about like the good conduct or sea service.
Good conduct requires NOT going to Capts Mast for 4yrs.
Sea service requires greater than 45 consecutive days at sea.
Neither are very onerous to earn
Both are near the bottom.
Maybe something like that.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I can see Achievement or Commendation medals for UAV folks but anythingmore degrades medals those who eat, sleep and crap in danger's backyard. As an EOD guy, I would think I earned my Bronze Star, Commendation and Achievement medals for wht I did on my Iraq and Afghan tours...not in a cube a few thousand miles away.

Not to diminish, but what about like the good conduct or sea service.
Good conduct requires NOT going to Capts Mast for 4yrs.
Sea service requires greater than 45 consecutive days at sea.
Neither are very onerous to earn
Both are near the bottom.
Maybe something like that.

I can sympathize with your feelings, (and thanks for performing a dangerous service, both of you) but I suspect you don't understand the various stresses of UAV pilots, inside and outside the "cubes" anymore than they would understand yours.

EOD Guy, did you personally disarm roadside bombs, or did you occasionally use ANDROS and other robots? If you did, did that diminish the service you and your comrades performed?