Mauser and nagant questions

[xxlmac3xx]

I like both rifles. But if I was actively going to buy one of the two now Id have to go with a Mauser. I love the Mauser action, very smooth and as states you can still get a few of the models for very reasonable money.

I've always been told Mauser's are the better shooter. But I want both lol

 

[johntheplinker]

If you are just starting out and want a fun rifles to shoot that is a Mauser, then simply avoid South American models! This is NOT because they are bad by any means, but most South American countries changed the rifle caliber to something other than the standard 8mm (technically 7.92 x 57mm.) I would also avoid the Swedish Mausers for the same reason. The Swede's made EXCELLENT rifles but again changed their caliber to 6.5x55mm. This can be more expensive and less available than the standard 8mm.

If you buy an 8mm Mauser and use surplus ammunition make certain to get some good bore cleaner and clean it after EVERY shoot! The olde surplus ammo was corrosive. By this I mean that it contained salts to draw out moisture and keep the powder and/or primer good no matter where it was used. The downside to this is that the salt will eat away at the bore so proper cleaning is essential. IF YOU WANT TO START A BIG FIGHT just start another post asking "what is best to clean the salts" out! Opinions and arguments will abound! (On a personal note these threads can be funny. Guys get really wound up about it sometimes...)

Do check headspacing on whichever Mosin you buy. You can do that with the tool normally provided. I have yet to have a problem on any of mine but it can happen.

Avoid Czech ammo for Mosins. It has had greater issues for me with sticky bolt. For some folks it is fine but my observation is a greater headache factor.

Most of Doug's post is right on, but I will disagree to a certain extent with the above points.

Yes, the ammo for the Swedes is a bit more expensive than surplus 8mm, but not that much. Just before the the holidays I bought 200 rounds of new manufacture Privi Partisan for less than $15/box. Noncorrosive, good reloadable cases, and in my Swedes it is quite accurate.

Yes you HAVE to clean for corrosive primers. No if, ands, or buts. Your bore will rust if you don't, sometimes in a matter of an hour if humidity is high enough. Techincally, the salt forms after firing, it is not in the powder or primer to draw moisture during storage. Potassium Chlorate is one of the compounds used in the priming mixture. When KCL breaks down during the ignition of the primer, Potassium Chloride is one of the by-products. This is the salt that draws moisture from the atmosphere and causes rust to form.

There is no tool in the toolkit provided with Mosins to check headspace. There is one to check firing pin protrusion, which is as important as headspace in a Mosin. The Mosin design has an adjustable firing pin. If it is out too far it will puncture the primer and cause gases to go where you don't want them. Won't hurt you, provided you're wearing eye protection, just makes cleaning that much more difficult. Also, headspace on a rimmed cartridge is nowhere near as important as one on a rimless design so you can get by with quite a bit.

Yes, do avoid the Czech ammo. Save it for me. Give your chamber a thorough (and I do mean thorough)scrubbing and you won't have any problems with Czech or any other lacquer coated ammo. Or just save yourself the trouble, let me know where the Czech is so I can buy it.

 

[chipsher]

I kind of forgot about the Swedish Mausers. There is no sweeter surplus rifle than an M38. Either the husky model or a cut down M96. The M96 is supper nice but pretty unwieldly, the M38 is perfect. One in good condition will run about 400.00. Good deals can still be had for 350.00. Better start reloading.





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[Libertarian01]

I must respectfully disagree with this Doug (and I may be fulla - ). While it is true that many South American rifles were re-barreled, I have found that most times they were re-barreled from 7mm Mauser or 7.65x53 Argentine to 7.62 NATO or even 30-06. 7.62 NATO and 30-06 surplus ammo can be found for around 50 cents/round, which is not much more (if at all these days) than surplus 8mm, and it's generally non-corrosive. As for the Swedes, I don't believe they were re-barreled from 8mm to 6.5x55 (and maybe that's not what you were implying). I know I have a Mauser Oberndorf An Neckar rifle that was made in Germany in 1900. They only made them at that factory for two years - 1899-1900- until the equipment could be shipped to Sweden (Carl Gustaf factory). I believe they were made in that caliber from the get go. Again, while it's true that 6.5x55 isn't as cheap as surplus 8mm, it's all non-corrosive, and the Swedes tend to be in excellent condition, partly as a result of not shooting corrosive ammo, and partly because Sweden was a neutral country and the rifles didn't see battle the way most of the 8mm variants did.

One of the things I do like about South American rifles are the crests. I think they have some of the most beautiful crests of any rifle - real works of art. Of course that has nothing to do with their shootability and moreso with collectability, but they sure are purty!

Most of Doug's post is right on, but I will disagree to a certain extent with the above points.

Yes, the ammo for the Swedes is a bit more expensive than surplus 8mm, but not that much. Just before the the holidays I bought 200 rounds of new manufacture Privi Partisan for less than $15/box. Noncorrosive, good reloadable cases, and in my Swedes it is quite accurate.

Yes you HAVE to clean for corrosive primers. No if, ands, or buts. Your bore will rust if you don't, sometimes in a matter of an hour if humidity is high enough. Techincally, the salt forms after firing, it is not in the powder or primer to draw moisture during storage. Potassium Chlorate is one of the compounds used in the priming mixture. When KCL breaks down during the ignition of the primer, Potassium Chloride is one of the by-products. This is the salt that draws moisture from the atmosphere and causes rust to form.

There is no tool in the toolkit provided with Mosins to check headspace. There is one to check firing pin protrusion, which is as important as headspace in a Mosin. The Mosin design has an adjustable firing pin. If it is out too far it will puncture the primer and cause gases to go where you don't want them. Won't hurt you, provided you're wearing eye protection, just makes cleaning that much more difficult. Also, headspace on a rimmed cartridge is nowhere near as important as one on a rimless design so you can get by with quite a bit.

Yes, do avoid the Czech ammo. Save it for me. Give your chamber a thorough (and I do mean thorough)scrubbing and you won't have any problems with Czech or any other lacquer coated ammo. Or just save yourself the trouble, let me know where the Czech is so I can buy it.

To All,

Regarding DoggyDaddys post. I agree with about everything he said as well. It was late and I was trying to be thorough and see the need to clarity what I was saying a bit.

First on the South American Mausers. Most of what I have seen were in some form of 7mm caliber in their original configuration. My only point was that I have found that caliber to be less available than the standard European 8mm. I will not disparage them in any way. I was simply trying to point out for a beginner potential issues regarding ammunition availability.

Second, regarding conversions to 7.62x51mm NATO or .30 - 06. I would avoid these as a collector because they are not in the original 7mm (normally) caliber. While I might point out the difficulty of finding 7mm as compared to 8mm, once I do purchase a SA mauser it WILL be in original configuration. This is my collectors perspective only! If I want something to go "boom" I can get the cheapest boomstick I can find. However, my mindset is more toward collecting and as such will not buy conversions. Also, I agree that some of their crests are really cool! I like my Persian crest but the South Americans really put their heart into their crest. Awesome artwork.

Third, regarding the Swedish Mausers. Enough cannot be said about their quality, accuracy and performance. Very possibly the best standard issue mausers ever made. My only concern again was ease of ammo availability of 6.5x55mm Swedish v/s 8mm Mauser. As I do not know what the OPs standard modus operandi is for buying ammo I was hoping that he doesn't pick up a rifle that he cannot easily find ammunition for.

Regarding Johntheplinkers post. Again on the Swede ammunition it IS available. I have several score online stores bookmarked that I do some pricing research on and can find it if I want it. As the OP is new I was trying to save him work. You bring up an excellent point about reloading. That is something I do not do (yet) and would be good for him if he gets into shooting C&R military weapons.

Regarding the "headspace" tool you are correct. I was wrong. I was thinking about firing pin protrusion and it was late so I miscommunicated. Thank you for catching my error!

Regarding the Czech ammo that is just a personal observation. I DO need to clean more, but even with some significant cleaning I still have problems with what I purchased some years ago. I was just sharing an observation of multiple complaints on the Gunboards and personal experience without going into great detail.

Finally, I did not see the post where the OP was looking at a Mitchell Mauser for $400 - $500. DO NOT SPEND THAT KIND OF MONEY ON A MITCHELL! I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with that. I really hope not. If you want you can offer $150, maybe $175 if you are in a really generous mood. This is the kind of item that is sold on the sizzle and NOT on the steak! They clean 'em up, make look real purdy, and in so doing degrade much of what would make them collectable - IF they ever were collectable. If someone standing there says he is proud of the Mitchells he bought for only $400, then you know you are looking ignorant in the face! I am not being mean or sarcastic, but "cleaned up and pretty" does not increase in value or historical significance anywhere near what a rifle with its original configuration even though that may be tarnished and dinged.

Regards,

Doug

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I'd like to have that too lol

Miller Tyme probably has at least 3 or 4 in his collection...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Don't feel bad about it, we all learn.
For the record even the name Mosin-Nagant is incorrect for the rifle in Russia, They just call them Mosin's, there Nationalistic Pride in the rifle runs deep.

Well, there's always the Obrez (Mosin pistol)...

 

[saleen4971]

avoid mosins that were built during periods of the war when russia was getting its ass kicked.

 

[Miller Tyme]

avoid mosins that were built during periods of the war when russia was getting its ass kicked.

Can you even give 1 good reason why ?

 

[Leadkrm]

I have a hex receiver. There is a ton of buying guides online to look through. That's what I used when I bought. Got a hex from Bradis for like 160 about 2 years ago. Shoots well and ammo is cheap. Sks is my next buy I think. Or another mosin

 

[Leadkrm]

Can you even give 1 good reason why ?

I've only shot hex receivers but when I was researching for my purchase I heard to avoid war time rifles a lot. I don't know what truth there is to it but I heard the war efforts caused a sacrifice on quality control. Again idk how much truth there is in these statements

 

[Miller Tyme]

I've only shot hex receivers but when I was researching for my purchase I heard to avoid war time rifles a lot. I don't know what truth there is to it but I heard the war efforts caused a sacrifice on quality control. Again idk how much truth there is in these statements

More internet hogwash, probably from the same idiots that claim last ditch Ariska's are dangerous to shoot ( Ariska's have probably the strongest mauser action recievers ever built in a military rifle) early 1903's with there "soft" recievers are far more dangerous to shoot than any Mosin ever made. Mosin's get a bad rap because the recievers and barrels exteriors where not finished ( ie read as cosmetics ) like the earlier mfg models giving them a rough looking finish. Every military in WW2 modified the mfg process of there weapons to speed construction and reduce costly and time consumming machining. The U.S. M3 is a perfect example of this.

 

[saleen4971]

I've only shot hex receivers but when I was researching for my purchase I heard to avoid war time rifles a lot. I don't know what truth there is to it but I heard the war efforts caused a sacrifice on quality control. Again idk how much truth there is in these statements

i have heard this many times, and my (admittedly limited) experience with them has shown that this advice tends to be correct.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

i have heard this many times, and my (admittedly limited) experience with them has shown that this advice tends to be correct.

Honestly if you had a bad experience with them, it may just have been the luck of the draw, and you'd be just as likely to have issues with an earlier gun. As Miller Tyme said (and I said earlier), the only difference was in the finishing, and not function. The barrels will look like they have very fine "threads" on the outside, which are the lathe marks, and the outside of the receivers will likely show some machining marks too, but really, that's it.

Miller also alluded to the last ditch Arisakas, however unlike the Arisakas, which had fixed sights instead of the adjustable sights, and wooden butt plates instead of steel, there were no such differences with the war time Mosins. Everything on them was the same with the exception of the final finishing process. With the Arisakas, the cost savings came in the form of both labor and materials, and with the Mosins, the cost savings came just from labor.