"Manhunt" the go to option?

[ticktwrter]

SWAT is used more than it should be nationwide in my current opinion and until I'm shown proof it's not that's what I'm sticking with.

And you make this claim using what data?

 

[ticktwrter]

Your wrong, it did not help catch the bombing suspect. A man who went out to smoke a cigarette after they gave the ok for his area to be off lockdown seen the kid in his boat and called the police. Dont go around thinking these BS searches are what fou d this guy.

You are correct to a point. Had it not been for the lock down would this suspect have been able to flee the area? As an officer when we are looking for a bad guy such as a burglar, we are set a perimeter that attempts to contain bad guys. So, you are correct the homeowner found him and called police to arrest him.

 

[Bunnykid68]

And you make this claim using what data?

SWAT Team Brings TV Crew To Film Raid Against Threatening Internet Critic -- Raids Innocent Grandma Instead - informationliberation

Pro Libertate: The Death of a Slave-Catcher

SWAT team fired 71 shots in raid

 

[jbombelli]

You are correct to a point. Had it not been for the lock down would this suspect have been able to flee the area? As an officer when we are looking for a bad guy such as a burglar, we are set a perimeter that attempts to contain bad guys. So, you are correct the homeowner found him and called police to arrest him.

He was found outside the search perimeter.

 

[Trigger Time]

And you make this claim using what data?

It's not actualy a claim its my current perception. I didn't say it was fact 100% locked in stone.

I'm trying to gather more factual data to possibly form a new opinion or possibly keep the same opinion. But as for what formed my current opinion it's by reviewing news and then comparing cases that go to trial. Also police reports that are released. Also by talking to people I know in law enforcement. But in order to form a concrete opinion I was trying to ask members on a team or ones close to those that are.

Also I realize that bad incidents that happen don't represent ALL departments. Some departments I hope don't rub off across the board. But it's also judges that issue warrants for these raids that I want more info about.

 

[Trigger Time]

And you make this claim using what data?

So I've answered your question now tit for tat please.

What data do you use to counter my perception that swat teams are overused?

 

[johnny45]

That is correct. And with respect to the dedicated LEO's here on INGO, the awful truth is that while the cops and SWAT were busy forcing law abiding citizens out of their houses AT GUN POINT and storming their way in, they completely missed Tsarnaev who was hiding in a boat in someones BACKYARD. Tunnelvision much? He almost got away because of the myopia of the JBT's that were so intent on rousting the general public and finally getting to put into practice the urban assault tactics that they had been training for and show how good they were at it. EPIC FAIL.

What we haven't seen or heard about is the innocent, law abiding citizens who were manhandled and zip tied because they questioned and/or resisted armed intruders STORMING THEIR HOME WITHOUT A WARRANT (it is the nature of these things. Especially living in America where we are supposed to be free and the people still think they have rights). When quietly canvassing the neighborhoods, keeping hyper vigilant and checking EVERY nook and cranny the way things used to be done, would apparently have yielded better results. All the while NOT violating anyone's Civil Rights. And I have seen absolutely nothing about this in the media. 25 years ago that would have been a huge question mark as far as the media were concerned.

This is where our Government has brought us. Does anyone honestly think that it will willingly put things back without being made to?

I honestly do not think it will.

 

[HmDBrian]

You are correct to a point. Had it not been for the lock down would this suspect have been able to flee the area? As an officer when we are looking for a bad guy such as a burglar, we are set a perimeter that attempts to contain bad guys. So, you are correct the homeowner found him and called police to arrest him.

I see what you are saying and I actually have asked myself this very question. I honestly do believe it would have been the same turnout without the lockdown. We are talking a injured man, im guessing it was the leg wound at this time, on the run. If it were me in his shoes, I would have done the same thing, hide somewhere. At least until the next night and try my chances once its dark again. You have to remember, when he escaped, it was soon to be daylight. He knew he had no chance trying to out run the police, no firearm to carjack another, and couldnt run very good due to injuries. Again, all this is my opinion and we will never know.

 

[IndyDave1776]

And you make this claim using what data?

Every stupid/nefarious misuse constitutes overuse of such units. Every time they are at the wrong place or engage in excessive use of force is by its nature overuse.

 

[ticktwrter]

SWAT Team Brings TV Crew To Film Raid Against Threatening Internet Critic -- Raids Innocent Grandma Instead - informationliberation

Pro Libertate: The Death of a Slave-Catcher

SWAT team fired 71 shots in raid

OK, those are examples of possible misuse of a SWAT team but you said they are used too often. Any proof of that?

 

[ticktwrter]

He was found outside the search perimeter.

Do you think he didn't see all of the cops flooding the entire area and was forced to lay low? How would he have known what the perimeter boundaries were? I doubt he was watching CNN while hiding.

 

[IndyDave1776]

OK, those are examples of possible misuse of a SWAT team but you said they are used too often. Any proof of that?

Once again, every misuse is use one time too often. This nonsense has appears to have almost completely displaced conventional warrant service.

 

[ticktwrter]

So I've answered your question now tit for tat please.

What data do you use to counter my perception that swat teams are overused?

Don't have any such data and don't need it, you made the claim they are over used. SWAT teams around the country are utilized daily and you never hear anything of them. Our local team is used 3-4 times a month for drug raids and no one knows about it because nothing bad has happened.

 

[ticktwrter]

Once again, every misuse is use one time too often. This nonsense has appears to have almost completely displaced conventional warrant service.

I don't know if there is "conventional" warrant service. As you may or may nor know many of the drug warrants have a great possibility of guns being present. It only makes sense to send those properly equipped to handle it. And just because a raid goes bad and the wrong house is hit for whatever reason does not mean it is a misuse of SWAT. I guarantee NO SWAT member wants to raid the wrong house.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I don't know if there is "conventional" warrant service. As you may or may nor know many of the drug warrants have a great possibility of guns being present. It only makes sense to send those properly equipped to handle it. And just because a raid goes bad and the wrong house is hit for whatever reason does not mean it is a misuse of SWAT. I guarantee NO SWAT member wants to raid the wrong house.

I really don't care what you profess to guarantee. If you have such a problem with potential danger to the point that you can't find an acceptable way to deal with it without endangering others, then find a different job.

 

[ticktwrter]

I really don't care what you profess to guarantee. If you have such a problem with potential danger to the point that you can't find an acceptable way to deal with it without endangering others, then find a different job.

Sadly, use of a SWAT team is acceptable for an armed drug raid. All drug raids are presumed to be armed because dealer like to protect their wares. I don't have a problem with potential danger I PREPARE for it just like you do.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Sadly, use of a SWAT team is acceptable for an armed drug raid. All drug raids are presumed to be armed because dealer like to protect their wares. I don't have a problem with potential danger I PREPARE for it just like you do.

I hate to have to say this, but that preparedness (on the parts of the residents in question) is exactly the reason why hitting the wrong place can be inherently dangerous.

 

[johnny45]

I hate to have to say this, but that preparedness (on the parts of the residents in question) is exactly the reason why hitting the wrong place can be inherently dangerous.

Indeed.

 

[ticktwrter]

I hate to have to say this, but that preparedness (on the parts of the residents in question) is exactly the reason why hitting the wrong place can be inherently dangerous.

And also extremely rare.

 

[jbombelli]

Do you think he didn't see all of the cops flooding the entire area and was forced to lay low? How would he have known what the perimeter boundaries were? I doubt he was watching CNN while hiding.

Doesn't matter. He was outside the perimeter. Without Joe Homeowner finding him and calling the police they'd not have found him.

You yourself say he was likely not watching CNN, so since he was outside the perimeter, how would he have seen the searches when they weren't happening where he was? If he had a little better hiding spot they'd probably still be looking for him.