Timjoebillybob
Grandmaster
- Feb 27, 2009
- 9,567
- 149
No, it isn't.
I'll take your word on that since you do have experience in the field. But don't most LEOs tell a person to drop the weapon before it's pointed at them? If they have time of course. Isn't that trained?
I'm not talking about a guy jumps up and points a handgun or draws a knife and starts running at them. Yes I agree shoot no warnings, there is no time. But approaching a person with a weapon not at ready I thought they were supposed to give commands, but I may be wrong, I know very little of LEO training.
To have cops, you must give them the benefit of the doubt. It's a simple as that. They are forced to make difficult judgments in split seconds, sometimes when their lives or another's is on the line.
Why didn't they say drop the gun before the backup arrived? Because backup hadn't arrived. Then, if the guy pointed the gun shaped object, there was no time to say drop the gun. Which of you would tell someone to drop it before shooting them if you honestly thought they were about to shoot you?
Unless I hear different evidence, this is a tragedy for sure, but not one that is the cops' fault.
I'd say you have to give LEO the same as you would a normal non-LEO citizen.
And I would say they had backup, there were two of them and one of him. Better odds than I expect to happen to me.
For myself I wouldn't be responding to a call like that since I'm not LEO But in a case of two against one, and they have the jump on him, I'd draw point and yell. Before he had a chance to bring it up. Not sneak around and call in the choppa.
Add in the fact that there was an pig(yes I used the term, and no I don't mean Pride, Integrity, Guts, I mean pig and this is the first time on this forum I've ever used that term. I think probably the first time in 15-20 or more years), I believe it was in L.A. that posted on his facebook page that he craved to put an OCer down on the ground and if they twitched shoot them in the back. Yes a slight exaggeration but not much of one...
Then add in what I've heard from officers in CA, albiet a small but vocal minority. But those are the ones that I've seen post or heard. And the non LEOs from the L.A. area. Well.....
Watch this video and maybe some can understand what the officers saw...
YouTube - Woman Threatens Cops with Cell Phone
In this video I wouldn't of faulted the officers at all. But this video and and what is being discussed is pretty much apples and oranges. In the video the police get into a car chase and the person jumps out with something in their hands, pointing it at them. Reasonable to believe it's a gun and they are going to shoot.
Responding to a possible man with a gun sitting on a porch, not so much. I'll take their word that he raised it up and even that it was pointing at them. But it could of been he was showing it to them. IMO rather than form a perimeter for a person peaceable sitting on a porch with a possible firearm. They should of had one of the responding officer sit back and take aim and the other have a firearm at ready at least and yell for the person to drop it. That is at the most.
Frank if you would answer I'm curious. In a similar situation involving a non-LEO shooter what would you do as an Officer? For instance let's say I'm walking down the street and this person points a hose nozzle at me while he's sitting on his porch, I draw and shoot. What am I going to be facing? Would you give me the same benefit of a doubt as you would give these officers? Let's just say (not true but let's assume ) I'm a normal honest citizen with nothing more than a parking ticket on my record.
Are you just going to take it as a fact that he pointed it at me and I had reasonable belief that I was threatened enough to shoot and call it a day? Or am I going to be taking a ride?
I'm not trying to put you on the spot here. From your postings and such I think you are a very good LEO. And one heck of a person and I would be glad to buy you a beer or a coffee. But I am interested in your answer and also in making you think.