Longguns Downtown: What is the point?

[USMC_0311]

I am fully prepared to "hammock up" for the cause.

I will definitely bring my camera for this!

He will have his own.

 

[SavageEagle]

You know, I see the point of this thread. I don't really care. If you don't want to stand up and fight for your rights while you still have the upper hand that's fine. There are plenty of other patriots who see the importance of this and are willing to take a stand in your place. If you wish to continue to write letters to, and make phone calls to, politicians who don't give a damn about you or what you have to say, go ahead. How's that been working out for you?

Or maybe you think paying dues to the NRA or GOA are going to save your gun rights? Yep, ask Katrina Gun Owners who had their guns RETURNED to them how that worked out for them?

Look, if you wanted to know what the point was for this WALK, all you had to do was ask. You didn't have to make a separate thread just to bash us with. If you don't want to come, don't come. If you don't want to support us, don't support us. You don't see anyone talking about how the NFA Day get together could go wrong. You didn't see anyone talking about how the INGO SKS Shoot could go wrong. You didn't see anyone talking about how the INGO Family Picnic could go wrong. What's the point of anything when it comes to gun rights? What was the point of the Tea Parties? What was the point of the Civil Rights Protests?

Don't you think that by us carrying rifles downtown that it might inspire other Patriots to take a stand? That maybe it just might get "Closet Gun Owners" to come out of that closet and stand up for what they believe in?

"Oh look at all these guys with guns! And DOWNTOWN INDY none-the-less! They got some brass ones alright!"

This happened in Cinncinatti, OH and it won them the right to CC a gun. Sure, the city could PROPOSE new gun laws. What happens when thousands of gun owners show up to protest???? You think they'll pass it? Or would you rather sit at home and write letters instead of standing up and taking a stand in their faces and say NO! ?????

This is one of those events that separates the talkers from the doers. You don't have to show up because you're scared. I understand. It's ok.

Oh, and don't worry, INGO's good name will be kept out of the Walk. I'm sure Fenway doesn't want INGO's name to be part of this and that's fine. I stated this in the first part of the thread but haven't heard anything from Fenway. There will be no mention of INGO, no INGO apparell, nada.

Maybe after this event happens and goes smoothly you nay-sayers will change you minds. Until then, enjoy the view from your computer desks. You will be missed at the event.

 

[shooter521]

This is why I believe that when mods are contributing in a thread, especially a heated one, they should guide any inappropriate posts to another mod to let them handle it...I think you understand where I am coming from.

Given the absence of another Mod online at this moment time, I'm trying to be an equal opportunity offender (notice I called out comments from posters on both sides of the discussion). By trying to guide the tone of conversation in-thread, my hope is that civil discussion can continue, rather than having another Mod come in later, lock the thread and infract the whole bunch of us.

 

[4sarge]

You know, I see the point of this thread. I don't really care. If you don't want to stand up and fight for your rights while you still have the upper hand that's fine. There are plenty of other patriots who see the importance of this and are willing to take a stand in your place. If you wish to continue to write letters to, and make phone calls to, politicians who don't give a damn about you or what you have to say, go ahead. How's that been working out for you?

Or maybe you think paying dues to the NRA or GOA are going to save your gun rights? Yep, ask Katrina Gun Owners who had their guns RETURNED to them how that worked out for them?

Look, if you wanted to know what the point was for this WALK, all you had to do was ask. You didn't have to make a separate thread just to bash us with. If you don't want to come, don't come. If you don't want to support us, don't support us. You don't see anyone talking about how the NFA Day get together could go wrong. You didn't see anyone talking about how the INGO SKS Shoot could go wrong. You didn't see anyone talking about how the INGO Family Picnic could go wrong. What's the point of anything when it comes to gun rights? What was the point of the Tea Parties? What was the point of the Civil Rights Protests?

Don't you think that by us carrying rifles downtown that it might inspire other Patriots to take a stand? That maybe it just might get "Closet Gun Owners" to come out of that closet and stand up for what they believe in?

"Oh look at all these guys with guns! And DOWNTOWN INDY none-the-less! They got some brass ones alright!"

This happened in Cinncinatti, OH and it won them the right to CC a gun. Sure, the city could PROPOSE new gun laws. What happens when thousands of gun owners show up to protest???? You think they'll pass it? Or would you rather sit at home and write letters instead of standing up and taking a stand in their faces and say NO! ?????

This is one of those events that separates the talkers from the doers. You don't have to show up because you're scared. I understand. It's ok.

Oh, and don't worry, INGO's good name will be kept out of the Walk. I'm sure Fenway doesn't want INGO's name to be part of this and that's fine. I stated this in the first part of the thread but haven't heard anything from Fenway. There will be no mention of INGO, no INGO apparell, nada.

Maybe after this event happens and goes smoothly you nay-sayers will change you minds. Until then, enjoy the view from your computer desks. You will be missed at the event.

Great Post

 

[BloodEclipse]

You know, I see the point of this thread. I don't really care. If you don't want to stand up and fight for your rights while you still have the upper hand that's fine. There are plenty of other patriots who see the importance of this and are willing to take a stand in your place. If you wish to continue to write letters to, and make phone calls to, politicians who don't give a damn about you or what you have to say, go ahead. How's that been working out for you?

Or maybe you think paying dues to the NRA or GOA are going to save your gun rights? Yep, ask Katrina Gun Owners who had their guns RETURNED to them how that worked out for them?

Look, if you wanted to know what the point was for this WALK, all you had to do was ask. You didn't have to make a separate thread just to bash us with. If you don't want to come, don't come. If you don't want to support us, don't support us. You don't see anyone talking about how the NFA Day get together could go wrong. You didn't see anyone talking about how the INGO SKS Shoot could go wrong. You didn't see anyone talking about how the INGO Family Picnic could go wrong. What's the point of anything when it comes to gun rights? What was the point of the Tea Parties? What was the point of the Civil Rights Protests?

Don't you think that by us carrying rifles downtown that it might inspire other Patriots to take a stand? That maybe it just might get "Closet Gun Owners" to come out of that closet and stand up for what they believe in?

"Oh look at all these guys with guns! And DOWNTOWN INDY none-the-less! They got some brass ones alright!"

This happened in Cinncinatti, OH and it won them the right to CC a gun. Sure, the city could PROPOSE new gun laws. What happens when thousands of gun owners show up to protest???? You think they'll pass it? Or would you rather sit at home and write letters instead of standing up and taking a stand in their faces and say NO! ?????

This is one of those events that separates the talkers from the doers. You don't have to show up because you're scared. I understand. It's ok.

Oh, and don't worry, INGO's good name will be kept out of the Walk. I'm sure Fenway doesn't want INGO's name to be part of this and that's fine. I stated this in the first part of the thread but haven't heard anything from Fenway. There will be no mention of INGO, no INGO apparell, nada.

Maybe after this event happens and goes smoothly you nay-sayers will change you minds. Until then, enjoy the view from your computer desks. You will be missed at the event.

This is the new and improved version of Ryan.

 

[ATF Consumer]

This is the new and improved version of Ryan.

Yes...we all like

 

[El Cazador]

You know, I see the point of this thread. I don't really care. If you don't want to stand up and fight for your rights while you still have the upper hand that's fine. There are plenty of other patriots who see the importance of this and are willing to take a stand in your place. If you wish to continue to write letters to, and make phone calls to, politicians who don't give a damn about you or what you have to say, go ahead. How's that been working out for you?

Or maybe you think paying dues to the NRA or GOA are going to save your gun rights? Yep, ask Katrina Gun Owners who had their guns RETURNED to them how that worked out for them?

Look, if you wanted to know what the point was for this WALK, all you had to do was ask. You didn't have to make a separate thread just to bash us with. If you don't want to come, don't come. If you don't want to support us, don't support us. You don't see anyone talking about how the NFA Day get together could go wrong. You didn't see anyone talking about how the INGO SKS Shoot could go wrong. You didn't see anyone talking about how the INGO Family Picnic could go wrong. What's the point of anything when it comes to gun rights? What was the point of the Tea Parties? What was the point of the Civil Rights Protests?

Don't you think that by us carrying rifles downtown that it might inspire other Patriots to take a stand? That maybe it just might get "Closet Gun Owners" to come out of that closet and stand up for what they believe in?

"Oh look at all these guys with guns! And DOWNTOWN INDY none-the-less! They got some brass ones alright!"

This happened in Cinncinatti, OH and it won them the right to CC a gun. Sure, the city could PROPOSE new gun laws. What happens when thousands of gun owners show up to protest???? You think they'll pass it? Or would you rather sit at home and write letters instead of standing up and taking a stand in their faces and say NO! ?????

This is one of those events that separates the talkers from the doers. You don't have to show up because you're scared. I understand. It's ok.

Oh, and don't worry, INGO's good name will be kept out of the Walk. I'm sure Fenway doesn't want INGO's name to be part of this and that's fine. I stated this in the first part of the thread but haven't heard anything from Fenway. There will be no mention of INGO, no INGO apparell, nada.

Maybe after this event happens and goes smoothly you nay-sayers will change you minds. Until then, enjoy the view from your computer desks. You will be missed at the event.

And, with all of that, I'm done.

 

[bigus_D]

You know, I see the point of this thread. I don't really care. ...

Look, if you wanted to know what the point was for this WALK, all you had to do was ask. You didn't have to make a separate thread just to bash us with. If you don't want to come, don't come. If you don't want to support us, don't support us. ...

So, what is the point? As this is not a protest against pending legislation, what will the media say when reporting on this event?

Even if I wanted to participate, I can't figure out what the message actually is... I've asked the question... NOTE: THERE HAS BEEN NO BASHING OF THE WALK IN THIS TREAD!

I don't see the point of the walk, but I DO CARE! That may be the biggest difference between us!

 

[dburkhead]

Obviously, there is no need to carry a longgun in downtown Indianapolis. I mean, you can't hunt there, a longgun is not a practical self defense weapon, etc.

I've seen and read the thread about a walk (not a march, not a parade, not a protest) with longguns downtown. So far as I can tell, the only message that will be expressed (though with no signs, with no specific talking points outlined that I could see) is that we have a right to carry longguns in Indiana.

I believe that this is a counter productive effort. I believe that the people don't want longguns downtown. I believe that opening the eyes of the people to the fact that you can carry longguns downtown will result in a new effort to limit what guns can be carried. Then, when I need to take my longgun in for service, I'll have a new set of laws to concern myself with.

I'm all for open carry. Open carry your self defense weapon all day long whereever you want... this has a point. There is purpose. But why a longgun downtown. Why would the people NOT limit that right?

Note: This is not a rant. I am not a troll. I was just talking with some friends this weekend about the march (oh, excuse me, walk), and I couldn't come up with what the purpose of the whole thing is, but could definitely see all of the possible negatives. I hope this thread sparks a conversation on what the merits are of such a (non-protest) walk, rather than continued debate over muzzle direction and sling configuration.

What was the point of gay pride parades? After all you can't have sex (straight or gay) in front of the circle center monument? All of your arguments about the "negatives" of such an OC walk would have applied equally well there--particularly when you consider how "extreme" some of the folk participating in those parades were.

Why would the people not limit that right? They've been "limiting" rights for 75 years now (and that's just counting from NFA, not from the various local laws that even predate that). What's one more, right? Except one more becomes another one more which becomes another one more which becomes . . . well, you should be able to get he point there.

Has history ever had a case where a right was preserved, let alone promoted, by hiding it? Ever?

 

[SavageEagle]

Given the absence of another Mod online at this moment time, I'm trying to be an equal opportunity offender (notice I called out comments from posters on both sides of the discussion). By trying to guide the tone of conversation in-thread, my hope is that civil discussion can continue, rather than having another Mod come in later, lock the thread and infract the whole bunch of us.

I am being very civil. It's as simple as you want to do this or not. There is a thread for that and it's the planning thread. All suggestions are welcome and will be considered. Again, everyone's safety, including those NOT in the march, are of top priority.

The time for civil action has come. Before they push for another AWB or other asinine law. Why wait for them to strike first?

 

[Bigum1969]

I'm a little hesitant to wade into these waters, so maybe I'll just dip my toes.

I've read most, but not all of the thread regarding the "walk". I think there are good intentions with this walk. No doubt about it.

But you have to take a high level look at how the public is going to perceive it. How do you think the average person (perhaps a sheeple) is going to react to seeing a group of folks carrying rifles and ARs in downtown Indy? You just have to make sure and ask yourself that question.

Is that going to help the cause?

Let me provide a comparison (maybe not the best, but it came to my mind first): Every year you see gay pride parades that take place. In some of these parades, there is behavior exhibited that many folks find offensive. These same folks are not being drawn to support gay rights from these parades -- in fact quite the opposite.

If the "walk" makes the strong pro 2A crowd happy, but scares or turns off the general public, then what has it accomplished?

I'm not trying to start a flame war, just add some more thoughts to this discussion.

 

[Boilers]

Unclothed females with automatic weapons, washing soapy water onto dirty cars...... I'm in

I have a few good ideas every now and again.


I listened to Adam Carolla's carcast podcast this week from Pebble Beach Concours.

He's a bit brash.

He said (about ugly cars)
"Come on! We know what makes a hot chick. Big ___ and a tight ___. And we know all hot cars have a hood scoop!"

I had to laugh. Plenty of dorky looking hood scoops. (No way I'll argue his first point, though)

 

[SavageEagle]

I'm a little hesitant to wade into these waters, so maybe I'll just dip my toes.

I've read most, but not all of the thread regarding the "walk". I think there are good intentions with this walk. No doubt about it.

But you have to take a high level look at how the public is going to perceive it. How do you think the average person (perhaps a sheeple) is going to react to seeing a group of folks carrying rifles and ARs in downtown Indy? You just have to make sure and ask yourself that question.

Is that going to help the cause?

Let me provide a comparison (maybe not the best, but it came to my mind first): Every year you see gay pride parades that take place. In some of these parades, there is behavior exhibited that many folks find offensive. These same folks are not being drawn to support gay rights from these parades -- in fact quite the opposite.

If the "walk" makes the strong pro 2A crowd happy, but scares or turns off the general public, then what has it accomplished?

I'm not trying to start a flame war, just add some more thoughts to this discussion.

You make a good point. However being Gay is verymuch against Christian Principles. Carrying a Gun and Self-Defense are not.

I'm very much aware that there are going to be a lot of people call the police when they see us. That's why we're going to work as much as possible with IMPD on this. I also realize that the media is going to bash us into a bloody pulp. It doesn't matter.

Real, true Patriots all across the Country will see this. They will take a stand themselves. I know a lot of the Tea Party groups are excited about this. Some are not. But when you have none gun owners calling you a great Patriot for standing up for your rights, even if they don't agree with them, you know you're doing something right.

 

[BloodEclipse]

So, what is the point? As this is not a protest against pending legislation, what will the media say when reporting on this event?

Even if I wanted to participate, I can't figure out what the message actually is... I've asked the question... NOTE: THERE HAS BEEN NO BASHING OF THE WALK IN THIS TREAD!

I don't see the point of the walk, but I DO CARE! That may be the biggest difference between us!

I liked this idea way back when... it just got derailed due to many factors and many naysayers.
I saw the guy in NH with his OC pistol and I said "Right on" no one was mass murdered and this was where there was opposition.
Then I see the gentleman in AZ. I said "hey this could be the start of something". Again this was at a protest where emotion on both sides was high and this gentleman maintained his composure and again no mass murders occurred.

I think the more citizens are seen carrying, the more likely we will retain that right. It won't be taboo. The sentiment I hear, of those who don't understand what good comes from a march if we aren't protesting anything, is this will hurt the gun community.

I think you have just been conditioned into believing most of the Anti's message that guns are bad and we shouldn't have them let alone display them even if it legal to do so.
So we are people of like mind who choose to exercise our right, to walk as free men where we choose with our guns. If you are not of like mind you are free to stay home and naysay.
Just because the logic escapes you, there are many of us who understand what this means. Why else would anyone be so bold as to walk downtown Indy with a pistol strapped to their hip and a long arm over their shoulder? It is about LIBERTY!

 

[bigus_D]

I liked this idea way back when... it just got derailed due to many factors and many naysayers.
I saw the guy in NH with his OC pistol and I said "Right on" no one was mass murdered and this was where there was opposition.
Then I see the gentleman in AZ. I said "hey this could be the start of something". Again this was at a protest where emotion on both sides was high and this gentleman maintained his composure and again no mass murders occurred.

I think the more citizens are seen carrying, the more likely we will retain that right. It won't be taboo. The sentiment I hear, of those who don't understand what good comes from a march if we aren't protesting anything, is this will hurt the gun community.

I think you have just been conditioned into believing most of the Anti's message that guns are bad and we shouldn't have them let alone display them even if it legal to do so.
So we are people of like mind who choose to exercise our right, to walk as free men where we choose with our guns. If you are not of like mind you are free to stay home and naysay.
Just because the logic escapes you, there are many of us who understand what this means. Why else would anyone be so bold as to walk downtown Indy with a pistol strapped to their hip and a long arm over their shoulder? It is about LIBERTY!

THIS is a great post! It is actually stating the goal of the walk... I don't see quite how this message will be presented/controlled. I don't believe the media will spin it this way (especially without active direction from the 'walkers').

My concern/question stems from reading the organization thread and seeing little/no discussion of message and the repeated staments that signs won't be 'allowed'. I understand that if signs will create additional permitting requirements this would be a problem. I just felt that more focus was needed on the MESSAGE.

Thanks for the thoughtful reposonce BloodEclipse! Reps for that. To the walk organizers: focus on message. Assuming this walk is heard, you want to be sure your message is heard.

 

[IndyBeerman]

I'm not trying to nitpick this idea...

My main concern with this non-rally is the message that will be RECEIVED by those observing it. The non-march organization thread says very little about the actual point of the walk. From what I read, and I did try to read all of it over the past few days, is that signs are NOT going to 'allowed'. I saw some diucusion back and forth on this topic, but I gathered that signs will not be carried.

If the message is not being controlled (or even presented) by those walking, the media WILL present whatever message they want. Even if the message is being presented, it will be difficult (or impossible) to control what message is being received by the opposition.

There must be some signage to convey the message or the above highlighted will be exactly what will happen. Also a video taken of any interview taken by TV media for the entire time so if edited to construe it can be posted as a rebutal video of the twisted editing.

 

[SavageEagle]

There can be no signage. I cannot afford to go through to get permits just to have signs. Our interviews with the media should be enough to cover our intent. Coupled with our letters of intent to the media before the event.

And bigus_D, I'm pretty sure i stated intent and purpose plenty of times. I'm sorry if you missed it.

 

[originalhonkey]

to bad this turned into a battle. i was 50/50 on going before this post but from the childish behavoir of this post and all the fighting i think ill stay home or go shoot to bad we cant just have a debate that is productive instaed of this . like i said was interested but still had questions. now im good on staying home. this is why i dont post a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by the way, just because people have questions about this doesnt mean that they arent in support of it, that is just a ridiculous statement to make. i said i was 50/50. i want to support the people of this site and all things relating to our rights but when there is talk of people borrowing ak,sks, ar.'s because they dont own one or the others that didnt know if theirs were compliant or not.you cant tell me that safety is # one. if they dont have one of their own then they're not use to that gun which is a huge safety concern of mine.handing someone that has only shot a revolver, a loaded semi handgun and sending them down town with hundreds of people cause or no cause is not what responsible gunowner should be about. that being said i think the idea of letting people know that were active and strong is extremly important and im in support 100%. i believe that a little more thought and planning before the oc post came out would have given some of us a better feeling to jump on board. i think we should keep in mind when planning these events that there is a fine line in todays time of what can help a cause and what can hurt.

these are my thoughts. i respect all of yours. lets not fight we are all here for the same reasons i hope

 

[Spot Me 2]

I like the idea. I think we all need to start OCing and have a long arm over our shoulders everywhere we go. Just imagine the impact of 25,000,000 plus OCing everywhere they went. Do you think that would make a point without a word needing to be said????

This is just the start of the reminders that are going to happen. It's coming to a head whether you like it or not. It can be done peacefully!

 

[wtfd661]

So let me see if I have this right, if I don't agree with SE then for some reason that makes me SCARED to exercise my rights. If I don't agree with SE than some how that makes me a whinnier. IF I don't agree with SE than I don't stand up for my rights. If I don't agree with SE that some how equates to the Civil rights movement. If I don't agree with SE and am a PROUD contributor to the NRA that makes me some how not quite as smart as him. WOW I'm glad I now know all this.

By the way, the ironic thing is, I, in the past, respected SE and 4sarge for their past post showing strong support for all gunowners, now I see its only if you agree with them.

For what its worth, this thread was started on a civil tone and didn't degenerate until others showed up and started showing some hate.