Letter from Sen. Jim Tomes

[ATM]

Then explain your opinion on the subject.

Read that thread and you'll know my opinion on the subject. I'll discuss it with you in that thread if you like.

 

[Roadie]

Tomes just keeps throwing us under the bus.

Legislator who wrote gun law furious over zoo incident » Evansville Courier & Press

Still, Tomes said, he was "furious" when a man refused when asked to conceal a handgun holstered at his hip while at the zoo on Sept. 10. Police escorted him out because, they said in an incident report, he "started causing a scene."
"A responsible person doesn't do that," Tomes said. "We have our rights. We hear a lot about that. But we also have obligations and responsibilities, and that requires us to conduct ourselves in a manner that would not generate alarm out in public."

 

[Titanium_Frost]

The media is twisting his words. I am standing next to him right now. I asked him.

 

[Roadie]

The media is twisting his words. I am standing next to him right now. I asked him.

This isn't the first time, did they twist his words the other times too? this is the result of his latest words, twisted or not:

(from the CP comments)Well well well, it seems the opinion of myself and many others on this thread were just backed up by none other than Mr. 2nd Amendment himself! Where are all you out of town, new account having gun nuts now? How bout it IndyRoadie, IndianaGunToter, Rich? Why aren't you on here calling Mr. Tomes a liberal moron and telling him he doesn't know anything about the Constitution and to "read the law"? Reasonable people aren't debating his right to carry, we're debating his lack of respect and common sense. And like I said before, watch this law get changed sooner than you think, and not in your favor.

He just set back the gun rights he supposedly fights for by his ill chosen words.

Tell him "thanks for nothing" from me.

 

[Britton]

If open carry were not tactically sound the LEO and military would conceal their weapons.

That statement is so ****ed up I don't know where to start. Mod's, you better Ban me now, might be easier for all of us.

 

[jedi]

You fear what is beginning to show in Jim, Mr. "Jedi"?

That he's being corrupted in the capital?

That's insulting, sir.

Jim Tomes has done more for the 2A in IN than most anyone here. In fact, he's probably done more and continues to do more than 99% of of gun rights advocates across America.

I know Jim personally and he's one heck of a stand-up guy. You couldn't ask for a more pro-liberty, pro-gun guy.

More importantly, he's intelligent as well.

He's trying to tell some of the reactionary purists to cool their jets and he's telling them why.

Like him, I'm not sure they'll get the message. This open carry party some of these [reactionary purists] are considering will have implications well beyond Evansville, and potentially even beyond Indiana altogether.

I'll give you an example: When involved in the negotiations to get Illinois' carry bill passed this spring, there was some give and take to secure the votes we needed to make a deal happen.

Yes, for those who know and understand, politics is a dirty game of compromises. You can be morally and mentally pure, but you'll leave empty-handed almost everytime with that attitude.

Anyway, one particular legislator who shall remain nameless, wanted to insert a ban on carry in libraries, because, at the time, the bill under consideration was both an open carry as well as a "substantially concealed" bill.

I asked, "Why does XXXXX have such an interest in libraries of all places?"

Todd Vandermyde, the NRA's guy in IL who spearheaded this entire process told me, "Well, some library group is in his district and they are scared to death some open carry advocates are gonna have an open carry demonstration at their member libraries *like they did in Michigan* a while back."

I'm pretty sure it was Michigan, but the point is that being aggressive (or obnoxious from some folks' point of view) in open carry advocacy has its time, place and manner. If done poorly it also has its very negative fallout.

There's nothing wrong with open carry. I do it myself when in IN, especially in summer months, but I'm not a jerk about it and I use common sense.

John Boch
President
Guns Save Life

I was not going to answer this John because
1) you are too new to the boards to understand my stance on 2A
2) I did not want to de-rail the thread
3) I wanted to get more info on what exactly the senator was/is thinking

First it's not insulting as he is now a public figure and thus falls into the realm of getting having THE PEOPLE talk about him in terms of what we think of him. For the record I have never met him but did send him a tahnk you letter for all his work he did for us this past session and even told BoR that if the senator runs again for office I would donate to his campaign & I have NEVER donated to anyone's campaign!

Now in terms of my quotes let me give you the background you are missing (since you don't know my previous post here on INGO). No matter who we (THE PEOPLE) send to the represent us (local, state, federal level) over time they will lose sight of why we sent them there. We have seen it time and time again in history that man (having faults ie greed) will eventually go over to the dark side (even if for a bit) to get things done. It's the nature of politics (ie. the compromise, the pull of lobby money, the pull of obtaining more power (you vote for this this way and you will get to chair xyz committee), etc.

It occurs to all the politicans eventually to various degrees and something we (THE PEOPLE) need to always stay vigilant and watch over. Case in point Obama was sent by "HIS PEOPLE" (those that voted) because he told them he would change xyz, abc, etc and he has some done some of that but to others (their interest) he has not we switched sides (ie. gay issues comes to mind). Thus in their eyes he has become "corrupt" in that regard.

I understand the nature of the beast of politics and having to compromise to get what you want. Yes it would be nice if we could send a candidate that is 100% pure on an issue and s/he never change his position even if by changing it a little it means we get a bill passed that helps us with a baby step. But realistic I know that if we sent someone like this we will never get anything that we want. So at times it may look at our rep is doing something against what we like but overall he is on our side. am I making sense?

Now in terms of our senator his words on OC are just a small indication that he perhaps is not a 1000% 2A like me [ie. 2A = no infringements = you a free man = you can bear ANY arms period = no permit/license] I'm on the extreme end of the spectrum I know this and I'm sure he is not but **IS** on the 2A side. He can't be 1000% 2A and be in politics as it's suicide in our current environment. He has to play the "somewhat middle ground" in order to get things done.

Now with that I still think we have to keep vigilant with him just like any other politician. Yes he is on our side (more than many others) but he needs to be reminded that he works for US (the people). In the end he moves to far the other way (he is not) and we will do everything in our power to remove him from office and vote someone else that will move 2A forward. Again he is moving 2A forward (slowly but he is moving it) but it must be stated that all politicians need to remember that they work for us.

He is still new and that helps him since he still has the beat/feel of THE PEOPLE not like some of the others who don't care for us anymore, do whatever they want even when we scream up/down NOT to.

Now today I heard something that made me realize that he is still good (2A wise) and while he may slip every now and then (he is human after all) he is working to push 2A. What do I mean. I was in TFT (Guy R.'s ) Indiana Firearm Law course today and Guy in passing made a comment that in one of his law courses that he does for ATTYs the senator was in recently and Guy say something about a grey area we have in the law regarding the "roving school function" issue in IC right now and how he looked at the senator who was busy taking notes and said something to the effect we will work on this shortly.

That comment alone shows me yes the senator **IS** on our side (i knew that before) but he is actually working on tackling the problems we have on 2A and is moving the issues for us! Will he slip again. Probably since he is human. Should we worry. Hum.. We should take note of it. He slips too many times and it might be an indication that he is indeed not 2A but something else (ie. he is changing his mind, which I don't think will occur) but when he does slip we should help him and remind him of what the goal is.

Sadly some of us here on INGO are very quick to just toss him in the fire and say he is just bad, evil, etc. Recall that we have been at this fight for a long time without a real voice in Indy to help us out.

The media is twisting his words. I am standing next to him right now. I asked him.

^This!

Some of you will say he is "bad" okay he slipped up or even may actually be a CC liker (anti OC) fine so be it. We can't all love OC. I've never OC but I don't mind seeing those that OC. However at this time it is best we help the senator get back up, that he understand that what the OCs are/do, and continue to keep our line of comms with him open and help him for the next set of fights in the next session. He is for all intents and purposes the GUN senator right now in Indy. We (general we) on INGO may not always like him for his words that he may say or his train of though but so far he has hit homeruns for us. So give him some room to error cause at the end of the day we need more players like him so we can continue to push this 2A forward.

@Roadie I don't know if you helped during the last session by calling, email your rep or if the senator is your rep. (He is not mine) or if you helped push any of the other bills by spreading the word to the public, etc. In any case I do see where you are coming from. But keep in mind this is our "star player" right now. & just like in baseball/basketball/football we may pay our star player a lot because we expect good things from them. If they don't do good things they we kick them off the team. Sometimes they are going to mess up, lose a game or two. But overall the goal is to get to the superbowl/world championship, etc.

Think of this case as the senator just losing a game for us. He won the championship for us last year. It's still the pre-season for right now. Give him a chance to learn and understand what his words/actions do in the gun community. If he never makes a mistake he will never learn. At the end of the day years from now we won't even look/remember this. I foresee this senator has a bright future in getting more 2A items passed for us. However just keep tabs on him and be every vigilant that he like all other politicians are just that politicians that we must keep tabs on to ensure they don't become too corrupt (per our eyes) and to remind them they work for us.

 

[Britton]

I think in two years I repped maybe 5 times, I think you got the 5th one jediagh.

 

[Roadie]

Again, I am not faulting Mr Tomes for what he has done for "us", but that doesn't mean I should kiss his ass and agree with everything he says.

What he SHOULD have said on this issue was:

"I wasn't there, I didn't see what happened, so any comment I might make would be based on speculation at best"

Just my

 

[Hoosierdood]

That statement is so ****ed up I don't know where to start. Mod's, you better Ban me now, might be easier for all of us.

Maybe, you could start by saying "You have a good point". The whole "OC is not tactically sound" argument has been beaten into the ground. I suggest you start here: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...lf_defense/71996-the_open_carry_argument.html

 

[beararms1776]

I fully understand Sen. Tomes point and concern and I also agree with him. At the same time, the oc'er was within his rights.

 

[Britton]

Maybe, you could start by saying "You have a good point".

I would if it was. I'll refrain from posting on that subject in this thread so as not to hi-jack it.

As far as Jim Tomes goes I will support him and he has an open offer for our shop to support any gun related fund raiser he wishes. I have spent time talking to him and I know him to be a patriot. He, as well as others, will be supporting another senators bill to allow silencers to be used for hunting purposes. And they are now hard at work developing a series of bills for this session that will protect and expand our 2nd Amendment rights in Indiana.

 

[goinggreyfast]

Just posted the comment below on the Courier site but of course--it's subject to their consideration...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have been following this since the beginning. I guess what disturbs me most is that IF the LEO's who responded to the call about a man with a gun had respected Mr Magenheimer's right to openly carry this would not have gone this far. IF they would have turned it around on those poor, frightened parents (BTW, don't even try to blame YOUR fear on the kids--that's hogwash and you know it.) and told them that Mr. Magenheimer was not the criminal it would have gone a long way to diffuse the situation.

I have read in multiple posts this past week where Mr. M has been called every name in the book, including "Billy Bad A carrying a gun" when the only ones in this situation who were being "Billy Bad A's" were the cops who responded. By golly, they were going to put Mr. M in his place in front of the poor, frightened, sheeple and by doing that, they violated Mr. M's rights under the Constitution and the Indiana Code.

Even the honorable Mr. Tomes has not been quoted as chastising the LEO's for not doing their job properly. If he has and The Courier has not printed it, shame on you Courier. If Mr. Tomes has not made such a comment, shame on him.

Get a clue folks, lawfully licensed people who carry guns either openly or concealed ARE NOT THE THREAT. Folks who intend harm DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE LAW and I'm fairly certain that they will not let you in on the little secret that they have a gun on them until seconds count.

Remember, "When seconds count, the police are minutes away."

 

[templar223]

John, are you the guy from Illinois who was at the 2A meeting a few months ago?

Affirm.

 

[templar223]

...since you don't know my previous post here on INGO). ...
...

I don't know your previous posts here in INGO, but I've known Jim and his delightful wife Marge since GRPC in 2001. How many elected reps do you know who have been going to GRPC events since 2001 (or before)?

So, yes, you could say I know Tomes' character on the 2A more than I know of your posts here at INGO since sometime in what, 2008?

I understand the nature of the beast of politics and having to compromise to get what you want. ...realistic I know that if we sent someone like this we will never get anything that we want. So at times it may look at our rep is doing something against what we like but overall he is on our side. am I making sense?...

We're in 100% agreement, sir.

Now in terms of our senator his words on OC are just a small indication that he perhaps is not a 1000% 2A like me ......

When it comes to gun rights activism, I've learned talk is cheap.

I don't know how many protests have you attended. How many people have you taught to shoot. How many meetings have you attended to promote and defend gun rights. How many projects have you worked on, in person with others.

I hope the answer to all of these is "countless". I know it is with Tomes and his wife (with the possible exception of training others, but upon second reflection, if memory serves he's a Appleseed instructor and an NRA instructor). You don't do these things selflessly as Jim and Margie have done if you're not 1000% pro-gun.

Now with that I still think we have to keep vigilant with him just like any other politician. Yes he is on our side (more than many others) but he needs to be reminded that he works for US (the people). In the end he moves to far the other way (he is not) and we will do everything in our power to remove him from office and vote someone else that will move 2A forward. ...


Think of this case as the senator just losing a game for us. ...

Vigilant? Yes.

Needs to be reminded? Heck, if you've got time to even consider Tomes' dedication to our cause, I trust you've spent countless MORE hours crusading to remind the other members of the IN legislature these same points!

He's not losing the game for you, sir. He's trying to keep the reactionary purists from pulling an ill-considered "event' that sets *back* gun rights because they aren't savvy enough to understand the full ramifications of their "this is my right!!!!! OMFGBBQ!!!!" actions.

Jim Tomes isn't the problem here. It's "activists" that may give our cause a bad rep with the non-purists out there. I know IN has a different makeup when it comes to attitudes about guns than we do in IL, nevertheless, given the opposition to Tomes' bill last session, it seems there are still no shortage of misguided nanny-state devotees who eschew gun ownership and guns in public there at your beautiful statehouse.

It would seem the intelligent and best use of our resources would be to target those folks than to attack or debate Mr. Tomes' dedication to our shared cause.

John

 

[WebHobbit]

I really think Tomes should put out a press release that clarifies his position. The Evansville Courier's recent articles make it look like he is less than 100% on our side. Also they keep saying the Zoo asked Ben to conceal when they NEVER DID! Now that Ben has spoken to Tomes in person I think a press release clarifying BOTH issues would be GREAT. It would really help especially with the print versions of the paper floating around where none of the pro 2a commentators can weigh in.

 

[Bunnykid68]

That statement is so ****ed up I don't know where to start. Mod's, you better Ban me now, might be easier for all of us.

My statement made you that mad. My intentions were not to make anyone mad.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Latest statement from Mr. tomes to the Evansville paper
COMMUNITY COMMENT: Firearm law protects citizens from regulatory maze » Evansville Courier & Press

 

[jedi]

& the football is intercepted from our dear star senator.

He writes about the Indiana handgun license and in that same paragraph at the end says "as paying fees imposed by the state to receive such a permit."

No it does not bug me but I know some here are going to jump all over this. Just wanted to be the first to point it out.

 

[redneckmedic]

This gentleman was obeying the law. The police were not. If the situation were reversed, would there be people defending him for breaking the law as they are defending the police in this case?

This should all that needs to be identified.

 

[mrortega]

I really think Tomes should put out a press release that clarifies his position. The Evansville Courier's recent articles make it look like he is less than 100% on our side. Also they keep saying the Zoo asked Ben to conceal when they NEVER DID! Now that Ben has spoken to Tomes in person I think a press release clarifying BOTH issues would be GREAT. It would really help especially with the print versions of the paper floating around where none of the pro 2a commentators can weigh in.

Web, was that you to Ben's left at the 2A meeting talking with him at the end of the meeting last night?