Letter from Sen. Jim Tomes

[mrortega]

No wonder the woman and children were scared, look at that mug in the lat pic on the right

:shudder:

It wasn't the OC

Scares me. Unshaven, hat ripped, gansta chick next to him!

 

[mainjet]

I believe that the attached link demonstrates the concern that Senator Tomes is trying to express.

Our View: New gun law should be scrapped - Post-Tribune

I have tried a couple of times to write a comment and each time it will not post on the paper. This article is obviously very flawed but it is out there for many people to read. I guess they believe that people will only be hurt or killed by people who OC so they need to repeal this law quickly before that happens. The paper will not think past the end of their nose to think that a criminal will hurt or kill regardless of the legality of it.

I believe that the zoo incident was rediculous and I very much hope that the plaintiff prevails. I am all for carry on as usual in your choice of carry.

 

[LanceRobbins24]

Ok, I'm still new but maybe you might find what I have to say interesting, or, maybe not. For someone pushing 50, I'm a convert or sorts, a fairly new enthusiast. I've never been anti-gun, per se, but I haven't really been pro-gun either, and had always opposed OC. Now as a gun owner, I prefer CC and never OC in public, but I support responsible people's right to do so if they choose. What changed my mind about guns was seeing gun enthusiasts as normal people and I'll explain how that happened in a bit.

But first, I'll say what didn't contribute to my new enthusiasm about guns. In-your-face demonstrations had nothing to do with it. Others have suggested that it helped gay rights so it can help OC. Well I doubt that. I think "gayness" became more accepted despite their demonstrations rather than because of it. Demonstrating, especially in favor of something that isn't already accepted, really doesn't come off to the opposition as normal. It mostly serves to 1) be a rallying cry to likeminded individuals to join the cause so they can gain political clout, and 2) show politicians that they have enough support to be a political force. But it doesn't do all that much to change public opinion.

Second, gayness became more accepted because 1) normal-ish seeming people promoted the lifestyle as normal and harmless--made it seem more acceptable, 2) it rode the tide of political correctness and all the mass media support that comes with that, and 3) for at least the last 15 years, many schools, especially in larger cities, have taught kids that it's normal. Kids grow up, become tomorrow's leaders, and act on their beliefs.

So don't count on borrowing all the plays from the gay rights movement because OC is a completely different game. You're not going to ride the tide of Political Correctness, which is really just trendy liberalism. OC can't ever be PC so the media will mostly be against you. Also, unless like-minded individuals take over the NEA, sufficient numbers of teachers will never even hint OC as normal or acceptable, so you can't as efficiently futurize OC into tomorrow's leaders.

That leaves normal-ish seeming people promoting OC in a non-confrontational way. "It's my right, and I'll OC anywhere and anytime I want", comes off as confrontational. The ONLY way OC could ever be accepted (and frankly I doubt it will happen) is if most people believe it's normal and harmless.

You-tube, of all things convinced me that guns are not just okay, but really fun. I wanted to see some reviews on an air-soft gun for my son and happened to hit on some shooting videos. Most of the videos gave me a glimpse of normal seeming people having fun with firearms. Then I happened upon Hickok45's channel. I saw him as a down to earth, safety conscious, well versed, normal guy. He demonstrated such a joy of shooting that was so contagious I eventually ended up as a gun enthusiast and owner. Heaven only knows how many new gun enthusiasts he's helped discover a new passion.

Most people see "gun people" in the typical stereotype, forgive me because I did. When most people encounter Bubba out in public demonstrating the large chip he has on his shoulder along with the Glock strapped to his side, it just confirms what they already thought. But worse, since they've now personally encountered the embodiment of all they believe about gun owners, they call their legislators and demand that something be done. You have to care what people think sometimes. That's just practical. You want people to have an accurate opinion about you so that they don't muck things up because of wrong opinions.

What may help change public opinion best is for good people to demonstrate goodness while OCing. It probably won't help the hardened liberal come around, but the trash cleanup seems like a good idea. Whatever you do in your interactions with people, demonstrate that you're not kooky, that you're not some nutjob with a gun, that you're not carrying to intimidate people, or just because it's you're right. I read a quote that Mass Ayoob related in one of his books, "I carry a gun because I can't carry a police officer". That's just reasonable. If you believe that OC gives you an advantage over CC, and that you carry at all is because you want to be able to protect those around you should there be a threat, that seems very reasonable. Normal even.

Welcome aboard and good to hear you voice your view on the subject! I agree that if you do OC, it should be done in a manner that is as if you aren't even doing so. Go about your regular daily life, but expect other citizens to have questions and even be outspoken or rude to you. I would say my experiences have been 90% positive interactions. They usually turn into educational conversations about how to obtain a license to carry and knowing your responsibility to protect your family and yourself. Even so with LEO interactions. As most of the guys on here that have met me in person can attest that I'm a very approachable guy that is at ease speaking to anyone. I keep a level head and even when people try to impose an opposing view, never get into heated arguments from my side of the conversation. If I like I am doing my part for the pro 2A crowd to be just that, a normal and sensible citizen just like them going about my daily life whether it is by myself or with my wife and 6 year old boy and 3 year old girl. As Hoosierdood and I have discussed, I feel presenting ourselves in the way we do, it does more to normalize carrying than hiding it away so nobody has a clue you are carrying. It's my , but I don't feel in any way that how I conduct myself would be a detriment to the 2A movement and public perception of it.....quite the contrary. Now tell me who could think this guy is a threat??? (maybe all the BACON in the isle at Martins or all those tasty spicy chicken sandwiches from Chick-fil-a...man, I gotta trim down a bit...but they taste so GOOD!!!)

 

[Magnum]

You honestly look like an investigator or something. On that topic, I think sometimes OC gun owners are just dismissed as cops. People see an OC'ed firearm and immediately want the guy to be a cop so they feel safe. They check you out and if you look like a cop, bam, it's okay and they relax. If you have long hair and a Harley T-shirt on, then people are nervous. So, in the event someone asks you if you are a police officer, I think that gives you a good platform to paint gun owners in a positive light.

I think anyone who wants to OC should take retention training (particularly to disarm the statement "A BG could steal that so easy, OMG!"), and have a good response prepared for the people who ask about it. I think you can go a long way to further the cause and perception that lots of people carry guns and it is a wise thing to do.

 

[ATM]

...I think anyone who wants to OC should take retention training (particularly to disarm the statement "A BG could steal that so easy, OMG!"), and have a good response prepared for the people who ask about it.

Training is always recommended, but it's not necessarily the best response to disarm that statement IMO.

1. Historically, gun grabs from armed civilians are extremely rare.

2. Any BG that wants a gun likely already has one - laws don't slow them down one bit.

3. Anyone can steal anything from you if they are willing to kill you to take it, but most criminals are not looking to kill or fight for what they want. They want the easiest reward while limiting their own risk of injury, death or capture. They generally avoid armed citizens.

 

[youngda9]

OC is like Kryptonite for bad guys.

 

[LanceRobbins24]

1. Historically, gun grabs from armed civilians are extremely rare.

UNLESS.....we are referring to a 5 year old girl doing the gun grabbing!!! That can happen at any time.

 

[mainjet]

UNLESS.....we are referring to a 5 year old girl doing the gun grabbing!!! That can happen at any time.

^^^True dat. I was always so uneasy until my daughters turned 6.

 

[LanceRobbins24]

If you have long hair and a Harley T-shirt on, then people are nervous. So, in the event someone asks you if you are a police officer, I think that gives you a good platform to paint gun owners in a positive light.

As you can see in my profile pic under my name, I do ride a Harley and when I'm not wearing work clothes, I am typically in jeans and a Harley shirt a lot when I OC. Granted, I have a bit of a hair phobia, so the long hair doesn't quite fit with me (and my countless hours worth of tattoo work is also not visible), but I do see your point and it is valid. From what I know of other OC'ers on here, they present themselves just as I do and I'm sure TF was doing just that when he was at the zoo with his family.

 

[pinshooter45]

I believe that the attached link demonstrates the concern that Senator Tomes is trying to express.

Our View: New gun law should be scrapped - Post-Tribune

I have tried a couple of times to write a comment and each time it will not post on the paper. This article is obviously very flawed but it is out there for many people to read. I guess they believe that people will only be hurt or killed by people who OC so they need to repeal this law quickly before that happens. The paper will not think past the end of their nose to think that a criminal will hurt or kill regardless of the legality of it.

I believe that the zoo incident was rediculous and I very much hope that the plaintiff prevails. I am all for carry on as usual in your choice of carry.

I think I get it now, an open carry gun can harm some one and a concealed one cannot. What a load of Although I think the artical really is saying they don't want any kind of carry!

 

[Concerned Citizen]

As you can see in my profile pic under my name, I do ride a Harley and when I'm not wearing work clothes, I am typically in jeans and a Harley shirt a lot when I OC. Granted, I have a bit of a hair phobia, so the long hair doesn't quite fit with me .

You could always get one of those baseball caps with attached mullet.

 

[LanceRobbins24]

I do have a Joe Dirt mullet wig that I have been known to wear while playing softball here in South Bend and while riding the Harley. Can only wear it for so long before it starts bugging me though.

 

[mrortega]

As you can see in my profile pic under my name, I do ride a Harley and when I'm not wearing work clothes, I am typically in jeans and a Harley shirt a lot when I OC. Granted, I have a bit of a hair phobia, so the long hair doesn't quite fit with me (and my countless hours worth of tattoo work is also not visible), but I do see your point and it is valid. From what I know of other OC'ers on here, they present themselves just as I do and I'm sure TF was doing just that when he was at the zoo with his family.

I hate to tell you, Lance, but the new avatar looks too much like the scene from Shawshank Redemption where the warden offs himself as the feds are breaking into his office.

 

[sharkey]

I hate to tell you, Lance, but the new avatar looks too much like the scene from Shawshank Redemption where the warden offs himself as the feds are breaking into his office.

"I don't know what a Hollaback Girl is. I imagine that it is a foul, disease-ridden thing, that wears too much makeup to cover up the fact that it's a 47 year-old fish-dog"

 

[mrortega]

"I don't know what a Hollaback Girl is. I imagine that it is a foul, disease-ridden thing, that wears too much makeup to cover up the fact that it's a 47 year-old fish-dog"

?? Did you quote the wrong post?

 

[LanceRobbins24]

New avatar is Muscles Glasses from Epic Meal Time.....if you've never watched them on Youtube, you're in for a bacony treat.

 

[youngda9]

Epic mealtime is hilarious: Link

They make lots of bacon, even candied bacon(cooked with brown sugar) and gay bacon(candy rainbow bacon).

 

[Concerned Citizen]

Epic mealtime is hilarious: Link

QUOTE]
All I can say is...Wow.

 

[pinshooter45]

New avatar is Muscles Glasses from Epic Meal Time.....if you've never watched them on Youtube, you're in for a bacony treat.

There are no words to describe how funny that is. I think I brused a rib when I fell out of my chair!

 

[s&wluvr]

Jamil, that was VERY WELL presented. I'm with you on those thoughts