Lawsuit challenges constitutionality of male-only draft registration

[jamil]

Whether they pay you or not, when you are drafted someone is sticking a gun in your face and forcing you to fight for them. It's involuntary servitude and that's a form of slavery. Sorry you're incapable of seeing that.

Whether they pay you or not, when you are forced to bake a cake when someone is sticking a gun in your face and forcing you to indulge them. It's involuntary servitude and that's a form of slavery. Sorry you're incapable of seeing that.

 

[BogWalker]

Whether they pay you or not, when you are forced to bake a cake when someone is sticking a gun in your face and forcing you to indulge them. It's involuntary servitude and that's a form of slavery. Sorry you're incapable of seeing that.

I stepped out of that thread. Was jarrell in favor of forcing them to make the cake?

 

[HoughMade]

My oldest son registered Tuesday, his 18th birthday, as did I 26 years ago. I have no problem with the current system and in the case of war, I have no problem with the draft, if it is necessary. It is folly to believe that there will never be a "World War" level conflict and that a volunteer service will always be adequate. I also have no problem with the idea that men are traditionally the "protectors" of the family and society. Women may enlist if they wish, but I see no reason to impose the draft upon them.

 

[MisterChester]

Failure to register for selective service automatically prevents you from obtaining federal employment. I had an issue when I was doing my security clearance. They couldn't find me in the database. It goes by name, county of registration, and birthday. Someone had entered my birth day wrong, instead of the 10th, they put the 5th. Right month and year... it took someone approximately 10 minutes on the phone to find and correct. But I was told to go home and resolve the matter before reporting back to work. It is an automatic disqualifier.

To me that's a bit ridiculous. If you ever change residences or other important info and do not report it before your 26th birthday then you're technically breaking the law. Found that out a few weeks before my 26th and updated my information with them. It's an outdated law that needs to be updated.

 

[jamil]

I'll just use one of your favorite logical nuggets: It's not likely to change anyway so everyone ought to be treated the same under the law. Maybe we can get some 14th Amendment action here to support making women sign up for the draft too.

I stepped out of that thread. Was jarrell in favor of forcing them to make the cake?

As I recall MRJ's position was pretty much similar to what I highlighted above. He justified his position by saying it was the law. I'm still trying to nail down when we're supposed to support "rule of law" and when we're not.

 

[HoughMade]

...I'm still trying to nail down when we're supposed to support "rule of law" and when we're not.

It's pretty simple- if you agree with it, everyone must be forced to comply by law. If you don't agree with it, it's tyranny and a grave injustice for anyone to have to comply.

 

[mrjarrell]

Whether they pay you or not, when you are forced to bake a cake when someone is sticking a gun in your face and forcing you to indulge them. It's involuntary servitude and that's a form of slavery. Sorry you're incapable of seeing that.

Forcing someone to bake a cake is slavery, just the same. Where have I ever said otherwise? Slavery is slavery and it is immoral.

 

[mrjarrell]

I stepped out of that thread. Was jarrell in favor of forcing them to make the cake?

No, I was not.

 

[OakRiver]

As I recall MRJ's position was pretty much similar to what I highlighted above. He justified his position by saying it was the law. I'm still trying to nail down when we're supposed to support "rule of law" and when we're not.

So is being forced to make a cake against your will "involuntary servitude"? After all if you don't then the force directed against you isn't a "gun in your face", it's the force of the courts.

 

[Lowe0]

Since the dawn of humans men have been more expendable and wombs have been more valuable to the tribe.

This remains true today and is just one of many reasons why a society of people dedicated to perpetuating the species doesn't send their women off to war en masse.

Does it remain true? We don't seem to have any shortage of more people. If we do get in a global war (the only reason we'd need a draft again), perhaps we'd be better off not rushing to repopulate - fewer people competing over limited resources seems like a good way to avoid war.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

"Whether they pay you or not, when you are drafted someone is sticking a gun in your face and forcing you to fight for them. It's involuntary servitude and that's a form of slavery. Sorry you're incapable of seeing that."

The possibility of being drafted when the nation is in need is part of the social covenant of living in this country. If you are not comfortable with the possibility of being drafted, you are free to choose to live in another country.

 

[HoughMade]

Finally, we've found something about Scandinavian socialist countries that malcontents don't want to emulate.

 

[rambone]

The possibility of being drafted when the nation is in need is part of the social covenant of living in this country. If you are not comfortable with the possibility of being drafted, you are free to choose to live in another country.

I don't remember reading that Americans shall enjoy the "social covenant" of choosing between involuntary servitude or fleeing their own homeland. No, that's not written anywhere.

Instead, Americans were guaranteed in writing the "inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

All of these rights are eviscerated when the government can march people off to their death -- and shoot them if they disobey.

 

[HoughMade]

...Instead, Americans were guaranteed in writing the "inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."...

Since conscription was an accepted fact when those words were written and the same people who wrote those words and signed the document enacted a draft....did they forget, or was it presumed by them that no one in their right mind would think conscription was excluded by those words?

 

[rambone]

Since conscription was an accepted fact when those words were written and the same people who wrote those words and signed the document enacted a draft....did they forget, or was it presumed by them that no one in their right mind would think conscription was excluded by those words?

Just like African slavery was an accepted fact. Right?

No one in their right mind would read these revolutionary principles and challenge existing practices.

Maybe they forgot to condemn slavery?

 

[Dead Duck]

I don't remember reading that Americans shall enjoy the "social covenant" of choosing between involuntary servitude or fleeing their own homeland. No, that's not written anywhere.

Instead, Americans were guaranteed in writing the "inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

All of these rights are eviscerated when the government can march people off to their death -- and shoot them if they disobey.

Is there any country out there that you are willing to live in......or die for? or planet?

When are you going to finally admit that you are already living in the best damn country in the whole ****ing world.
It's not perfect but you're not going to get any better.



Merica

 

[Expat]

Maybe to balance out the past, they could do females only for a generation or two... maybe other groups that would not have been allowed to serve in the past, gays, transexuals, etc. as well.

 

[HoughMade]

Just like African slavery was an accepted fact. Right?

No one in their right mind would read these revolutionary principles and challenge existing practices.

Maybe they forgot to condemn slavery?

False equivalence. Bringing slavery into this discussion is a red herring of monumental proportion.

I guess we eliminate all taxes too because I am being forced to use my labor to pay taxes involuntarily.

Government has proper responsibilities. Defense of the populace is one of them. Conscription is sometime necessary to do that. The fact that the government oversteps its bounds regularly does not mean it is invalid when it is fulfilling its proper role.

As citizens we not only have rights, but responsibilities. One of those responsibilities is national defense.

Rights, always popular- responsibilities- not so much.

 

[BugI02]

......
Instead, Americans were guaranteed in writing the "inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
.....

Since conscription was an accepted fact when those words were written and the same people who wrote those words and signed the document enacted a draft....did they forget, or was it presumed by them that no one in their right mind would think conscription was excluded by those words?

Hough, when those words were written I don't think the authors could concieve of a person, worthy of being called a man, who would not jump at the chance to fight for his country

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Just like African slavery was an accepted fact. Right?

No one in their right mind would read these revolutionary principles and challenge existing practices.

Maybe they forgot to condemn slavery?

False equivalence. Bringing slavery into this discussion is a red herring of monumental proportion.

I guess we eliminate all taxes too because I am being forced to use my labor to pay taxes involuntarily.

Government has proper responsibilities. Defense of the populace is one of them. Conscription is sometime necessary to do that. The fact that the government oversteps its bounds regularly does not mean it is invalid when it is fulfilling its proper role.

As citizens we not only have rights, but responsibilities. One of those responsibilities is national defense.

Rights, always popular- responsibilities- not so much.

I we're to hang our hopes on an all volunteer army for all possible scenarios, what do we do if/when we are attacked by a force far greater in numbers than a voluntary force can be assembled?