Law Student Backs Down Cop After Being Unlawfully Stopped For Carrying A Gun

[melensdad]

Does not the Indiana law require us to produce our LTCH at the request of the officer?

If so then this situation, if played out in Indiana, would likely end differently.

 

[TD12]

I believe it would end up the same way in the state of Indiana, unless suspected of a crime stopping someone and seizing their possession would likely be the same.

I may be wrong as I don't know Indiana's laws 100% front and back.

Oh but that kid, was very impressive and I wouldn't say he kept calm, He was pretty irritated he just didn't act irrational. he stood his ground and was not breaking ANY laws.

 

[melensdad]

I believe it would end up the same way in the state of Indiana. . .

If you are carrying, can you legally withhold your LTCH in Indiana if approached by police and asked to produce your LTCH?

Does not the Indiana code place the burden upon the license holder to prove he has a license?

 

[KLB]

If you are carrying, can you legally withhold your LTCH in Indiana if approached by police and asked to produce your LTCH?

Does not the Indiana code place the burden upon the license holder to prove he has a license?

I believe you have to produce the LTCH, but that would be all. Also, once produced the encounter should come to an end. The officer would have no legal right to disarm you.

 

[Justin Case]

My understanding is that in Indiana you are required to show the officer your LTCH because it is illegal to carry a handgun in Indiana unless your have a LTCH or are in an exempt class, or you are transporting your handgun for repair, to or from a shooting range or store where you purchased your handgun, etc.

The LTCH of course has your ID info. Also during a routine traffic stop where the officer runs your driver's license your LTCH will appear on your record. After you produce your LTCH the questioning about carrying your handgun should stop. At least this is my understanding. Please feel free to correct me if I have misstated anything or left anything important out.

I think this case could have ended quickly in Indiana (if this was an Indiana resident who was stopped in Indiana) by the individual simply producing his LTCH.

Indiana Code 35-47-2

 

[findingZzero]

If I were the cop, I would have smacked the crap out of that guy cause he acted like a total smart-ass. Then I would have lost my job, but it would've been worth it. If I were the student, I would've handled it somewhat differently, but held my ground. Cops weren't that nice when I was a kid. Does that make me a fascist? I know someone here wanted to say that. Well, I'm here for ya.......(smileyfacehere)

p.s. Are smart-ass law students as unpopular as lawyers?

 

[melensdad]

So you guys haven't been following the thread about the guy ejected from Denny's for OC, lectured for extended time, and then followed by SWAT for miles? This happened in Indiana within the past few days.

 

[Merrixs]

I have got to put some of that in my memory banks.

 

[indyjoe]

If I were the cop, I would have smacked the crap out of that guy cause he acted like a total smart-ass. Then I would have lost my job, but it would've been worth it. If I were the student, I would've handled it somewhat differently, but held my ground. Cops weren't that nice when I was a kid. Does that make me a fascist? I know someone here wanted to say that. Well, I'm here for ya.......(smileyfacehere)

p.s. Are smart-ass law students as unpopular as lawyers?

So it is being a smart-ass to not consent for a police officer to illegally detain and seize your property?

If the cops decided to be not nice, you would have a pretty serious civil lawsuit on your hands. Unfortunately, that has been the only way to teach SOME police that they can not just make up law.

 

[Justin Case]

So you guys haven't been following the thread about the guy ejected from Denny's for OC, lectured for extended time, and then followed by SWAT for miles? This happened in Indiana within the past few days.

I think the guy at Denny's told the LEO that he was violatng his rights by asking him to show his LTCH. Which of course the LEO was within the law by asking to see his LTCH. I believe it escalated after that.

 

[indyjoe]

So you guys haven't been following the thread about the guy ejected from Denny's for OC, lectured for extended time, and then followed by SWAT for miles? This happened in Indiana within the past few days.

This was not handled as well by that individual. In Indiana, it is required to hand them your LTCH. After you have done that, you have the legal authority to exercise the same rights as the man in this video. It sounded like the Denny's OC resisted the LTCH, which is not a good way to start and reduces your legal position.

 

[findingZzero]

So it is being a smart-ass to not consent for a police officer to illegally detain and seize your property

No, not at all. I would draw the line @ citing court cases that few have heard of. Teaching the law to a constable on patrol; nothing good could come from that, except a power struggle. What do they say about teaching a pig to sing, it wastes your time, and annoys the pig. (No offense to LEO's)
It's not what you do, but the way that you do it (sing it).

 

[Jack Burton]

No, not at all. I would draw the line @ citing court cases that few have heard of. Teaching the law to a constable on patrol; nothing good could come from that, except a power struggle. What do they say about teaching a pig to sing, it wastes your time, and annoys the pig. (No offense to LEO's)
It's not what you do, but the way that you do it (sing it).

it must have been magic then that caused the cops to spring the kid loose with his gun and his dignity intact. Out of the two of them, which lost the "power struggle" while the other one walked away, and which one of the two is on Facebook where he is being mocked?

 

[findingZzero]

He was a lucky law student. Let's try 3 out of 5......

 

[rnmcguire]

Great video. What's really sad about this is when the officer says "it's common practice"? It's common practice to illegaly detain/harrass and seize a citizens property without probable cause? WTF? Are we in Nazi Germany? All because a soccer mom saw a man with a gun.

 

[blamecharles]

If you are carrying, can you legally withhold your LTCH in Indiana if approached by police and asked to produce your LTCH?

Does not the Indiana code place the burden upon the license holder to prove he has a license?

You are required to show your LTCH as it is required to carry a handgun in Indiana. I suspect the individual in the OP was in a state that allows OC without a license/permit.

 

[Rookie]

Assuming this was Maine....

OC is legal without permit
CC requires a permit

 

[Prometheus]

If you are carrying, can you legally withhold your LTCH in Indiana if approached by police and asked to produce your LTCH?

Does not the Indiana code place the burden upon the license holder to prove he has a license?

This falls under the same thing as needing a Drivers License IMO. It should be illegal to stop someone simply to see if they have a license. Unfortunately the courts only made the ruling for drivers licenses, the issue of a LTCH hasn't come up yet.

Fortunately the IN supreme court DID rule that once a LTCH has been produced, everything relating to the handgun questioning, search, seizure or detainment must immediately cease.

Anyone remember the name? Brown vs Indiana? or some generic name like that?

So at this point, legally you probably do have to present a LTCH if stopped in Indiana. Personally I don't feel like being the test case. The second they have it in their sticky fingers, they have to stop the stop... unless they reason to believe some other crime has been committed.

 

[ryknoll3]

This falls under the same thing as needing a Drivers License IMO. It should be illegal to stop someone simply to see if they have a license. Unfortunately the courts only made the ruling for drivers licenses, the issue of a LTCH hasn't come up yet.

Fortunately the IN supreme court DID rule that once a LTCH has been produced, everything relating to the handgun questioning, search, seizure or detainment must immediately cease.

Anyone remember the name? Brown vs Indiana? or some generic name like that?

So at this point, legally you probably do have to present a LTCH if stopped in Indiana. Personally I don't feel like being the test case. The second they have it in their sticky fingers, they have to stop the stop... unless they reason to believe some other crime has been committed.

That would be State vs. Richardson. The ONLY thing with this case is that it stems from a seatbelt stop, which has different rules than a normal traffic stop or other police encounter, and I'm curious to see if the courts apply it differently.

 

[zclevenger]

Wow that was really impressive, proves that it is a great idea to know the laws and specifics on different cases. Definitely have to applaud the law student