Is this a decent tractor?

[IndyGunworks]

Have you looked at any of the grey market compact tractors? Probably can find a newer, smaller, more modern 4x4 grey market compact in the same basic price range.

I would challenge you to find me a 4x4 tractor w/ a front end loader that will fit the bill of what i am trying to do for 5500 dollars. If such a thing existed don't you think i would be buying one of those instead?

 

[melensdad]

I would challenge you to find me a 4x4 tractor w/ a front end loader that will fit the bill of what i am trying to do for 5500 dollars. If such a thing existed don't you think i would be buying one of those instead?

I asked specifically about the "grey market" tractors.

While I have not priced them lately it was possible to import them a couple years ago for UNDER your price range. Brands included Iseki, Mitsubishi, etc. Grey market tractors are tractors that are either NOT designed for import into the US or are forbidden for import as new tractors into the US under trade agreements. Grey market tractors are supported by networks of grey market parts dealers, etc.

As for an older Kubota for $5500, I agree, that is not going to happen.

Would i still rut up the ground if i put turf tires on it in a few years?

Probably not.

 

[melensdad]

BTW, did you find out if the PTO is transmission driven or Independent?

If one of your main tasks is to bush hog then you really do NOT want a transmission driven PTO. That is a bad combination.

 

[Hotdoger]

BTW, did you find out if the PTO is transmission driven or Independent?

If one of your main tasks is to bush hog then you really do NOT want a transmission driven PTO. That is a bad combination.

I used a "B" to bush hog a lot.

It isn't nothing once you get use to it.

 

[melensdad]

I used a "B" to bush hog a lot.

It isn't nothing once you get use to it.

Well its true that anyone can do anything with the wrong tool, like using the heel of a shoe to hammer in a nail, or using the blade of a butter knife instead of a flat head screwdriver.

But the fact is that a transmission driven PTO tractor is the worst possible combination for a bush hogging/mowing tractor. Its fine in the middle of a run but not at the beginning or end, its also really bad if you have a lot of trees or plantings to mow around/up to, etc.

The 'live' or 'independent' PTO was one of the better advances in the evolution of tractors.

 

[Hotdoger]

Well its true that anyone can do anything with the wrong tool, like using the heel of a shoe to hammer in a nail, or using the blade of a butter knife instead of a flat head screwdriver.

But the fact is that a transmission driven PTO tractor is the worst possible combination for a bush hogging/mowing tractor. Its fine in the middle of a run but not at the beginning or end, its also really bad if you have a lot of trees or plantings to mow around/up to, etc.

The 'live' or 'independent' PTO was one of the better advances in the evolution of tractors.

I am well aware how to use one.

Saying it is a wrong tool is just wrong, Thousands were produced and users got along just fine with them .

Thousands of firearm enthusiasts still like the Mosin and get along just fine regardless of advancement in firearms.

 

[melensdad]

Saying it is a wrong tool is just wrong, Thousands were produced and users got along just fine with them .

I'm sorry but you don't know the history of tractors.

You are correct, thousands were produced, in fact tens of thousands. But they were produced for agricultural purposes. It was only later in the life span that people began to adapt them for jobs for which they were not suitable and began to use them, despite their shortcomings.

You are basically arguing that a butter knife IS, IN FACT, also a screwdriver. No sir, it is not. It can do the same job, within reason, as a screwdriver, but it is not a screwdriver.

Someone who buys a 30, 40 or 50 year old tractor to do work on their property may ask that tractor to do many things that the tractor was NOT ORIGINALLY DESIGNED TO DO but, as I said earlier, people can make do with anything even if it is the wrong tool for the job.

I'm not trying to argue with you. But I am point out simple historical fact.

 

[hornadylnl]

Pretty small.
2002 KUBOTA BX 1800D for sale in Xenia, Ohio - EquipmentTraderOnline.com

 

[hornadylnl]

Fully restored 1962 Ford 4000 Tractor and Implements

 

[Butch627]

This just looks tgtbt to me Tractor Loader

should be green
John Deere Loader/Backhoe

Id kill for this if it was 4wd
648 case mini only 625 hours

cheap ford
3400 FORD W/LOADER

 

[melensdad]

Fully restored 1962 Ford 4000 Tractor and Implements

Linky no worky

This just looks tgtbt to me Tractor Loader

That is one of the Grey Market tractors that I was referring to earlier in the thread.

Link to grey market info => http://www.best-used-tractors.com/grey_market.html
And another grey market info source => http://tractorbarn.com/grey-market_economical-compact-diesel-tractors.html

 

[hornadylnl]

Linky no worky

Try this.
Fully Restored 1962 Ford 4000 Tractor and Implements | eBay

 

[24Carat]

*

 

[24Carat]

BTW, did you find out if the PTO is transmission driven or Independent?

If one of your main tasks is to bush hog then you really do NOT want a transmission driven PTO. That is a bad combination.

Why?

 

[melensdad]

Why?

Back in the early days of tractors, when options like hydraulics and power take-offs were first appearing, they were driven THROUGH the transmission. When you would depress the clutch pedal you would kill the power going to the pto or hydraulics from the engine. Hence, pto and hydraulics quit "moving".

There are NO advantages to a transmission driven PTO. The only reason for a modern tractor to have a transmission driven PTO is to cut costs. With the two stage clutch you have control over the PTO that you need in many cases. Two examples of this control is: 1) If your snowblower is plugging up, you can stop the movement of the tractor and still power the PTO. 2) If you hit a thick patch of grass when mowing or thick brush, you can slow or stop the movement of the tractor and allow the tractor to process the material. You can't do these things with a straight PTO without taking the transmission out of gear and putting it in neutral. Even better than a two stage clutch is independent PTO but it is usually more expensive than the others also.

Live power is credited to either Oliver or Minneapolis Moline. Since I have restored Oliver tractors and have some of their memorabelia floating around here I stick with their version of the story.

But the transmission drive has a serious flaw. If you had a pto driven implement on the tractor, and you depressed the clutch to stop moving, the flywheel effect of the implement would continue to "back feed" power to the transmission, even as the power of the engine was no longer being connected to the transmission. That has shoved many an old tractor through the barn door. Live power usually uses a secondary clutch to control input power to the pto, as well as to isolate "power" being back-fed through the pto shaft to the transmission (by that flywhel effect) The secondary clutch can be a simple 2-stage clutch employing the same clutch pedal as the engine-to-transmission clutch, or, in some cases, a seperate (USUALLY hydraulic actuated) INDEPENDENT pto clutch.

 

[24Carat]

Back in the early days of tractors, when options like hydraulics and power take-offs were first appearing, they were driven THROUGH the transmission. When you would depress the clutch pedal you would kill the power going to the pto or hydraulics from the engine. Hence, pto and hydraulics quit "moving".

There are NO advantages to a transmission driven PTO. The only reason for a modern tractor to have a transmission driven PTO is to cut costs. With the two stage clutch you have control over the PTO that you need in many cases. Two examples of this control is: 1) If your snowblower is plugging up, you can stop the movement of the tractor and still power the PTO. 2) If you hit a thick patch of grass when mowing or thick brush, you can slow or stop the movement of the tractor and allow the tractor to process the material. You can't do these things with a straight PTO without taking the transmission out of gear and putting it in neutral. Even better than a two stage clutch is independent PTO but it is usually more expensive than the others also.

Live power is credited to either Oliver or Minneapolis Moline. Since I have restored Oliver tractors and have some of their memorabelia floating around here I stick with their version of the story.

But the transmission drive has a serious flaw. If you had a pto driven implement on the tractor, and you depressed the clutch to stop moving, the flywheel effect of the implement would continue to "back feed" power to the transmission, even as the power of the engine was no longer being connected to the transmission. That has shoved many an old tractor through the barn door. Live power usually uses a secondary clutch to control input power to the pto, as well as to isolate "power" being back-fed through the pto shaft to the transmission (by that flywhel effect) The secondary clutch can be a simple 2-stage clutch employing the same clutch pedal as the engine-to-transmission clutch, or, in some cases, a seperate (USUALLY hydraulic actuated) INDEPENDENT pto clutch.

Understand, I was confused by the physical location or a spline coming out of the transmission but on my '62 Ford 901 Select-O-Speed Diesel the PTO is then hydraulic . It is engine RPM dependent yet doesn't disconnect with the Hydraulic clutch disengaged. It also doesn't flywheel and over run because of the stored energy.

 

[karl77]

the weight of the tractor is want causes ruts, turf tires give floatation, but fill with mud quickly, thus making you stuck.

would also recommend using chains to tie down the tractor on the trailer over straps, unless you want 12k of tractor coming to see you in the cab.

 

[Boiled Owl]

This does not have a backhoe attachment w/ it, just plumbed for one if I could ever find one, but I would just borrow my dads.

^This
If you have access to another option such as borrowing until you can get a little more established, do so.

Save your $ and buy right, ONCE.

I've tried to save money on tractors. yep.

 

[melensdad]

Understand, I was confused by the physical location or a spline coming out of the transmission but on my '62 Ford 901 Select-O-Speed Diesel the PTO is then hydraulic . It is engine RPM dependent yet doesn't disconnect with the Hydraulic clutch disengaged. It also doesn't flywheel and over run because of the stored energy.

You'll find that, regardless of PTO type, the PTO speeds on all types are dependent upon the engine RPM.

the weight of the tractor is want causes ruts, turf tires give floatation, but fill with mud quickly, thus making you stuck.

In a simple way this is true. But you can look at a fully loaded combine out in the field, it can way exponentially more than the tractors we are talking about here, yet it doesn't rut and doesn't use turf tires. Weight causes ruts, that is true, but its weight per square inch of imparted pressure on the ground that is a more accurate description. Farmers are very concerned about soil compaction, consequently they use very low pressure tires to try to spread the weight to lessen the impact, many are even going to track style systems and getting rid of tires completely.

would also recommend using chains to tie down the tractor on the trailer over straps, unless you want 12k of tractor coming to see you in the cab.

110% agree with you on this this

 

[melensdad]

Save your $ and buy right, ONCE.

I've tried to save money on tractors. yep.

Lots of WISDOM in this post.

I think the best bang for the buck is probably in the grey market machines if he must spend his money now.

If not then borrow borrow borrow equipment while saving saving saving cash for the 'correct' tractor for the tasks to be done.

I can do more work in a shorter amount of time with a small 20ish HP modern Compact Utility Tractor with an HST transmission, dual spool loader, and live PTO than I could dream of doing with a 50's or 60's vintage diesel Oliver farm utility tractor.

My current modern CUT is a Bobcat CT235 with loader and nothing old can compare to the 34hp that I have available. And I say this as someone who loves to play with/restore/operate older machines and have owned modern New Holland, Kubota, Deere, etc over the years. Unless I get bored with tractors, just want to spend money on something new and nifty, or sell my property and no longer need one, I'm probably on the last tractor I will need to buy.