Maybe I am being ignorant here but I see a lot of stuff from time to time posted on the web about what is the better pp hd round. This is not an argument on caliber but rather jhp vs fmj. I hope I am not alone in thinking that even if you use federal red box or Winchester white box and shoot an intruder or general baddy in the chest or in the head would it not stop said person in their tracks? We can argue over penetration, expansion, performance all day but that does not mean anything if you do not hit your target. Ammunition is as much a tool as your preferred weapon but does it really matter if you empty your mag into a bag guy and get 45% hit ratio to center mass? My whole argument is pretty much based on the fact that shot placement is 100% more important than how a bullet performs once it hits said target. Our military do to the geneva convention must use Fmj bullets, now the weight and powder load may vary a bit but they are trained to be accurate under stress so they hit what they are aiming at, should not that be the same principle we use to judge our effectiveness while in a defensive situation rather than how much expansion a hornaday or gold dot has? I do carry jhp mind you but I would feel just as comfortable with Winchester white box in my carry weapon because I train to hit the target no matter what is spewing from the barrel.