Indiana's Push for Medical Marijuana

[BugI02]

...
Water if ingested in large enough quantities can cause death, and no I'm not talking about drowning. So can several vitamins that are required for life. In that study regarding liver damage did you notice the dosage the mice were given?

From the forbes cite:

First, researchers utilized all of the dosage and safety recommendations from a CBD-based drug known as Epidiolex. If this name sounds familiar, it should. Last year, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved it as a treatment for certain kinds of childhood epilepsy. It was a development that marked the first time in history that a cannabis-based medicine was approved for nationwide distribution in the United States.
Researchers then spent some time examining mice under the influence of various doses of CBD. Some of the animals received lower doses, while others were given more. The dosage is said to have been "the allometrically scaled mouse equivalent doses (MED) of the maximum recommended human maintenance dose of CBD in EPIDIOLEX (20 mg/kg)."
Shockingly, researchers discovered that the mice given higher doses of CBD showed signs of liver damage within 24 hours. To that end, 75 percent of these animals in the sub-acute phase had either died or were on the verge of death within a few days.

From Journal of Basic and Clinical Pharmacy, a publication of National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4804402/
A simple practice guide for dose conversion between animals and human

Allometric scaling is an empirical approach where the exchange of drug dose is based on normalization of dose to body surface area. This approach assumes that there are some unique characteristics on anatomical, physiological, and biochemical process among species, and the possible difference in pharmacokinetics/physiological time is accounted by allometric scaling.[5,6] This method is frequently used in research for experimental purpose to predict an approximate dose on the basis of data existing in other species. Drugs with lesser hepatic metabolism, low volume of distribution, and excreted by renal route are ideal candidates for scaling of dose by this approach.

"Hepatic" refers to liver and liver function. Please do let me know your precise scientific objections to the study methodology

 

[BugI02]

...
How about extrapolating the decrease in fatalities among states with medical MJ?
https://www.mailman.columbia.edu/pu...alities-decline-states-medical-marijuana-laws

Direct quote from the linked synopsis. Two exceptions to the 'rule'? Does that mean it's still a 'rule'?

Not all states with medical marijuana laws experienced reductions in traffic fatality rates, and a few states actually experienced increases. In California, after an initial immediate reduction of 16 percent in traffic fatalities and in New Mexico, after an immediate post-law reduction of 17.5 percent, the laws were actually associated with gradual increases in fatality rates. “These findings provide evidence of the heterogeneity of medical marijuana laws and indicate the need for further research on the particularities of implementing the laws at the local level. It also indicates an interaction of medical marijuana laws with other aspects, such as stronger police enforcement, that may influence traffic fatality rates,” noted Santaella-Tenorio.

From the actual publication referenced in your cite in American Journal of Public Health

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2016.303577
US Traffic Fatalities, 1985–2014, and Their Relationship to Medical Marijuana Laws

Results. On average, MML states had lower traffic fatality rates than non-MML states. Medical marijuana laws were associated with immediate reductions in traffic fatalities in those aged 15 to 24 and 25 to 44 years, and with additional yearly gradual reductions in those aged 25 to 44 years. However, state-specific results showed that only 7 states experienced post-MML reductions. Dispensaries were also associated with traffic fatality reductions in those aged 25 to 44 years.

There are 33 states with MMLs. So 7 of 33, slightly better than 1 in 5, is a success story? And one scientific objection I would have was the huge time utilized (1985 to 2014)

View attachment 82162 Adjacent is a chart of US traffic fatalities excerpted from the wiki. I'm don't see the study making the case for spotting the MML signal in the data noise. Fatalities were in a general downward trend throughout much of the period. There were above average declines in '08 and '09 when it would not be unwarranted to suppose people drove less due to economic constraints. California was the first state with an MML in 1996 and the effect on fatalities doesn't stand out. And if one goes just beyond the chosen interval, there were two consecutive sharp increases in fatalities coincident with/subsequent to full recreational legalization in California, Washington, Oregon and Colorado. Signal?

 

[Ziggidy]

I don't see an answer to my question.

Whatcha gonna do?

Comparing apples and oranges then adding what if? There are variables that could influence my action. Same as with this topic. There are circumstances that I may agree with pertaining to medicinal use. One thing I do know, the data suggests that the use of MJ can be related to an increase in adverse situations (i.e. MVD). Until data can disprove that observation, it will get a "no" vote from me; however I am open to discuss potential medicinal use a very limited base, with restrictions.

 

[bwframe]

Did somebody say that it is the grown ups that are against the legalization of this drug that has been illegal to use for virtually all of our lives?

 

[Jludo]

Did somebody say that it is the grown ups that are against the legalization of this drug that has been illegal to use for virtually all of our lives?

Yea I think someone said old people have trouble recognizing weed is less harmful than alcohol. They think because govt legalized one and not the other it must not be as bad.

 

[Trigger Time]

This is an interesting issue society wise, as a younger guy (25) everyone I know in the 40 and under age range wants it legalized for the most part. It's the older folks that are very anti legalization it seems.

Score: yet another thing I can blame boomers for

Its frankly because the 40 and under crowd (generally speaking) have had more access to facts growing up. We grew up in the age of information at our fingertips. I am NOT saying 40 and unders are more intelligent than older folks. That would show a lack of intelligence on my part. I am just saying we have grown up having facts at our fingertips (internet) and how to get them and when the government or drug companies lie to us and say weed is bad. We fact check it.
Also weed use has been more prevalent in our lifetimes than any other. Yeah the 60's. But the 60's has nothing on weed use of today.
Most of us have smoked a joint or bong or ate magic brownies, at one point in our lives. The worst thing that might have happened is we had sex, ate all the snacks, and fell asleep.

 

[jamil]

Did somebody say that it is the grown ups that are against the legalization of this drug that has been illegal to use for virtually all of our lives?

Okay. Let’s follow that logic. So the assertion is, because it’s been illegal all our lives—the duration of its prohibition confers some wisdom in prohibiting it—so therefore we should not legalize that which has been illegal for many years, especially if old people want to keep it illegal. That pretty much it?


That could work. Keep the NFA just like it is. Right? Because it’s been like that all our lives, and old people know best, and don’t question the wisdom of that which has been long established. Right?

 

[Ziggidy]

We grew up in the age of information at our fingertips.

We are all privy to whatever facts may be out there. Some may say the elders know better what to do with those facts, being older and wiser.

A question comes to mind about where these facts you speak of actually come from? Are these facts the result of the research done by the 40 and under?

Something to remember. The potheads of yesterday are basically running the world of today. That may be something to remember and also be concerned about. Making MJ legal may alter future years beyond help.

 

[jamil]

We are all privy to whatever facts may be out there. Some may say the elders know better what to do with those facts, being older and wiser.

A question comes to mind about where these facts you speak of actually come from? Are these facts the result of the research done by the 40 and under?

Something to remember. The potheads of yesterday are basically running the world of today. That may be something to remember and also be concerned about. Making MJ legal may alter future years beyond help.

potheads of yesterday running things today? Unpossible! Pot was illegal yesterday!

 

[Ziggidy]

potheads of yesterday running things today? Unpossible! Pot was illegal yesterday!

Yup.....just look at th democratic party. Look at the eyes of Schiff! And Nadler, he's still high - nodding off like he does. None of them make any sense!

My only conclusion is they are still smoking pot in the chambers.

 

[Jludo]

We are all privy to whatever facts may be out there. Some may say the elders know better what to do with those facts, being older and wiser.

A question comes to mind about where these facts you speak of actually come from? Are these facts the result of the research done by the 40 and under?

Something to remember. The potheads of yesterday are basically running the world of today. That may be something to remember and also be concerned about. Making MJ legal may alter future years beyond help.

Thought pot made everyone lazy and sapped ambition? Or they used to smoke and got over it? Either way it sounds like a casual link between smoking pot and 'running the world'

Also one might point out the older you are the less plastic your brain and the harder it is to change your mind, even with access to the same facts.

 

[Ziggidy]

Also one might point out the older you are the less plastic your brain and the harder it is to change your mind, even with access to the same facts.

In other words, the mature elder is wise enough that their mind cannot be manipulated as easily as young minds. One just needs to look at the snowflakes and many millennials of todays younger generations. Just look at the choices they make, political parties they support and the socialistic government they want. Yes indeed, their brains are so much better. In years past, we had "some" who acted like the young of today but there were enough "mindful" young who prevailed. Not to sure about today. If the under 40 are going to support MJ, I am pretty certain is not for medicinal use. Anything they support should be in question.

Nah.....I don't buy your theory.

 

[Jludo]

Being unwilling to change your mind isn't a virtue.

 

[phylodog]

Over 40 here and fully support legalization. I suspect some haven’t a clue what the effects of MJ actually are and have been convinced that “Reefer Madness” was a documentary rather than Puritan propaganda.

 

[bwframe]

So the younger crowd is smarter than the the older crowd that has more life experience and built the Internet that they "learn" from?

What does it say about the younger crowd that they cannot learn from those who have been there done that? How is it that a younger crowd cannot appreciate the experience of an older crowd that has seen the effects of long term drug use in friends, family and themselves?

Does the younger crowd not see that the older crowd would only want better things for the younger crowd?

Just askin'...?

 

[phylodog]

How many of the older crowd have been around since before MJ was criminalized and can testify first hand to the horrific societal problems it created? It’s been fully legalized in several countries and over 80 million Americans have access to it and society hasn’t crumbled. Some are always going to figure out a way to create problems for themselves and others. I can’t get past the hypocrisy of being pro 2nd Amendment and anti MJ. The exact same arguments are made on both sides of the antis.

 

[Jludo]

I'll listen to anyone who's been there and done that.
Anyone want to share your drug experience with the group? How marijuana criminalization has been a net positive in your life and that of your friends and loved ones?

 

[BugI02]

How many of the older crowd have been around since before MJ was criminalized and can testify first hand to the horrific societal problems it created? It’s been fully legalized in several countries and over 80 million Americans have access to it and society hasn’t crumbled. Some are always going to figure out a way to create problems for themselves and others. I can’t get past the hypocrisy of being pro 2nd Amendment and anti MJ. The exact same arguments are made on both sides of the antis.

I sincerely doubt that you want to hear it. I missed the 'summer of love' because I had the example of my older ****ing brother right in front of me. He came back from SE Asia and did nothing but drink and get high with like minded friends. When he worked he worked under the table for cash, and thus never built up any credit with SS. He was impulsive and mercurial and never held any job for as much as a year. He was restless and moved often, usually at the expense of a stable situation that had potential. One by one his more industrious friends who had given him opportunities gave up on him. He now lives a lonely life with glaucoma, COPD and the after affects of bladder cancer; supported by the generousity of the family whose conformity and conservatism he mocked. He beat alcohol 27 years ago and became a recovering alcoholic in the AA sense, no drinks at all for 27 years. But he never beat the leaf and still will barely lift a finger to help himself and has no interest in even a side hustle to better his life

Don't you dare tell me that I know nothing about the issues. I've lived them probably longer than you've been alive, certainly longer than you've been an 'adult'. If it wasn't so tragic it might be painfully humorous, that people who are hell bent to ignore the advice of older people when it doesn't align with what they want, solicit that same advice in hopes of selectively mining it to support their agenda

 

[BugI02]

Thought pot made everyone lazy and sapped ambition? Or they used to smoke and got over it? Either way it sounds like a casual link between smoking pot and 'running the world'

Also one might point out the older you are the less plastic your brain and the harder it is to change your mind, even with access to the same facts.

Yeah, the hedonistic, debauched younger generation with little or no military or commercial experience wound up running Rome also. How did that work out?

 

[jamil]

Yup.....just look at th democratic party. Look at the eyes of Schiff! And Nadler, he's still high - nodding off like he does. None of them make any sense!

My only conclusion is they are still smoking pot in the chambers.

Idunno. I kinda thought Schiff is only half human, the offspring of a hippie flower child and an alien aquatic species that crash landed off the coast of Massachusetts in 1959.