Indiana LTCH and SBS laws?

[koveras225]

I'm curious about the state of laws relating to Firearms in Indiana, two in particular. I'm curious about whether or not the law prohibiting the 'carry' of handguns without a license (such as transporting to the range and back) and the law prohibiting the possession of short-barreled shotguns have ever been challenged, especially recently, and what the general outcome (other than the obvious failure) was.

Are there any plans to challenged them again, or are we pretty much sitting at the status quo?

I'd really like to see both done away with, or at least substantially changed in our favor... but I can't recall ever seeing much, if anything about them.

 

[mikea46996]

Once you have LTCH Indiana is a pretty free state. I guess it is a case of pick your battles wisely.

Did I like spending $125 to be able to use my God given right??? NOPE

Am I going to fight about it and risk losing what we do have??? NOPE

 

[racr28]

I am moving to Indiana from Tennessee and we can buy SBS. It is the same process as buying a SBR. So, not being able to posses a SBS is definitely not a federal law.

 

[mikea46996]

 

[Steelman]

Actually it is... You have to pay for and be issued the tax stamp..

Nope. State Law. I swear to Gawd it is. /Donnie Baker




IC 35-47-5-4.1
Sawed-off shotgun
Sec. 4.1. (a) A person who:
(1) manufactures;
(2) causes to be manufactured;
(3) imports into Indiana;
(4) keeps for sale;
(5) offers or exposes for sale; or
(6) gives, lends, or possesses;
any sawed-off shotgun commits dealing in a sawed-off shotgun, a Class D felony.
(b) The presence of a weapon referred to in subsection (a) in a motor vehicle (as defined under IC 9-13-2-105(a)) except for school buses and a vehicle operated in the transportation of passengers by a common carrier (as defined in IC 8-2.1-17-4) creates an inference that the weapon is in the possession of the persons occupying the motor vehicle. However, the inference does not apply to all the persons occupying the motor vehicle if the weapon is found upon, or under the control of, one (1) of the occupants. In addition, the inference does not apply to a duly licensed driver of a motor vehicle for hire who finds the weapon in the licensed driver's motor vehicle in the proper pursuit of the licensed driver's trade.
(c) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting in the course of the officer's official duties or to a person who manufactures or imports for sale or sells a sawed-off shotgun to a law enforcement agency.


ETA:

IC 35-47-1-10
"Sawed-off shotgun"
Sec. 10. "Sawed-off shotgun" means:
(1) a shotgun having one (1) or more barrels less than eighteen (18) inches in length; and
(2) any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six (26) inches.

 

[mikea46996]

The National Firearms Act ("NFA"), 73rd Congress, Sess. 2, ch. 757, 48 Stat. 1236, enacted 1934-06-26, currently codified as amended as 26 U.S.C. ch.53) is an Act of Congress passed in 1934 that, in general, imposes a statutory excise tax on the manufacture and transfer of all Title II weapons and mandates the registration of those weapons.
The Act was passed after the repeal of Prohibition, and it mandates that transfers of the covered firearms across state lines be reported to the Department of the Treasury (this function has since been transferred to the Department of Justice). The transfer tax of $200 ($5 for AOWs) placed on the transfer of firearms controlled by the Act was roughly equivalent to five months' salary in 1934.[1]


The Act defines a number of categories of regulated weapons. These weapons are collectively known as "Title II" weapons and include the following:

1. Machine guns - this includes any firearm which can fire more than 1 cartridge per trigger pull. Both continuous fully-automatic fire and "burst fire" (ie, weapons with a 3-round burst feature) are considered machine gun features.
2. Short barreled rifles (SBRs) - this category includes any weapon with a buttstock and either a rifled barrel under 16" long or an overall length under 26". The overall length is measured with any folding or collapsing stocks in the extended position. The category also includes weapons which came from the factory with a buttstock that was later removed by a third party.
3. Short barreled shotguns (SBSs) - this category is defined similarly to SBRs, but the length limit for the barrel is 18" instead of 16", and the barrel must be a smoothbore. The minimum overall length limit remains 26".
4. Suppressors - this includes any portable device designed to muffle or disguise the report of a portable firearm. This category does not include non-portable devices, such as sound traps used by gunsmiths in their shops which are large and usually bolted to the floor.
5. Destructive Devices (DDs) - there are two broad classes of destructive devices:
   1. Devices such as grenades, bombs, explosive missiles, poison gas weapons, etc.
   2. Any non-sporting firearm with a bore over 0.50" (many firearms with bores over 0.50", such as 12-gauge shotguns, are exempted from the law because they have been determined to have a legitimate sporting use).
6. Any Other Weapons (AOWs) - this is a broad "catch-all" category used to regulate any number of weapons which the ATF deems deserving of registration and taxation. Examples include, among others:
   • Smooth-bore pistols
   • Pen guns and cane guns
   • Short-barreled weapons with both rifled and smooth bores, etc.
   • Disguised firearms
   • Firearms that can be fired from within a wallet holster or a briefcase
   • A short-barreled shotgun which came from the factory with a pistol grip is categorized as an AOW rather than a SBS, because the Gun Control Act describes a shotgun as “…designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder…”
   • Handguns with a forward vertical grip. It is therefore illegal to place an aftermarket foregrip on any pistol without first registering it as an AOW and paying the "making tax" imposed by the Act.
   
   All NFA items must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). Private owners wishing to purchase an NFA item must obtain permission from the ATF, obtain a signature from the county sheriff or city or town chief of police (not necessarily permission), pass an extensive background check to include submitting a photograph and finger prints, fully register the firearm, receive ATF written permission before moving the firearm across state lines, and pay a tax. The request to transfer ownership of an NFA item is made on an ATF Form 4.[2]

 

[Steelman]

That all well and good that a Federal law like NFA 34 allows SBSs, but Indiana's state law prohibits them.


Legal elsewhere, but not Indiana. Savvy?

 

[mikea46996]

That all well and good that a Federal law like NFA 34 allows SBSs, but Indiana's state law prohibits them.


Legal elsewhere, but not Indiana. Savvy?

I will have to dig deeper I thought that they were in fact legal with the stamp...
I am not a NFA guy so I am not sure.

BigCraig!!!!!!!! Where are you????

Though heavily regulated on the federal level by the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934, as well as by state laws, Title II weapons (machine guns, silencers, short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, destructive devices and "any other weapons") of one variety or other are legal to own in every state in the Union. Indiana is quite liberal in this regard, prohibiting only the ownership of short-barreled shotguns and explosive devices (ie grenades, bombs). Otherwise, if you're a US citizen at least 21 years of age and can legally own any firearm in the State of Indiana, you can legally own a SMG, silencer, short-barreled rifle, large-caliber destructive device (ie "Street Sweeper" shotgun), or AOW.

See my dad always said if you con't learn something new everyday you must be dead or dumb...

Thank you for clearing that up..

I learned something new today...

 

[Steelman]

Not sure how Big Craig is going to scare away two IC statutes, but best of luck to you anyway. The law is pretty clearly written.

 

[koveras225]

Oh my... what have I started?

To clarify, short-barreled shotguns are regulated but still legal under the '34 NFA. Indiana takes it step further by prohibiting possession of SBSs entirely.

As for the LTCH, I was referring more to the fact that you can't legally take a handgun to the range, or to a friends/family members property, without one. (My Grandmother has 80 acres less than a 1/4 mile away from me that I'd love to be able to legally take my handgun to, but I'm still in the process of obtaining a LTCH... It's rather frustrating to say the least.)

I'm simply curious as to if either have ever been challenged, or if any attempts have been made to change them, either through the legislative or legal systems.

 

[mikea46996]

Not sure how Big Craig is going to scare away two IC statutes, but best of luck to you anyway. The law is pretty clearly written.

Just looking for more info....

Found it and even thanked you for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Of note, if someone at the place you want to shoot is going to buy your firearm from you and sell it back to you at a later time, the place you shoot would possibly be defensible as a "place of purchase", and thus legal to transport the firearm there unloaded and in a secure wrapper. The same applies if there is a gunsmith (aka a "place of repair") where you're going to shoot. There is nothing in the statute that requires that any repair actually take place.

Also, for a legal firearm that accepts shotgun ammo and that has a short barrel, one may still lawfully possess such things as BigCraig's Serbu Super Shorty, which is, if I correctly recall what I read, a three-shot, short barrelled, smooth-bore firearm with a pistol grip (that has never had a shoulder stock). This item transfers in the NFA registry as an AOW, because
A) a "shotgun" is designed to be fired from the shoulder,
B) once a shoulder stock has been on the firearm, it is forever after considered a long gun
C) the Serbu started off with a pistol grip and a smooth, not rifled bore.

IIRC, it would be legal to carry a Serbu or similar firearm, however to all appearances, to do so would be rather unwieldy, not to mention the limited utility due to the short barrel. (It was designed to breach doors and that's about it. Considering what it did on the video to those watermelon 'tangos', though... It's not something I want to be in front of at any distance within sight. )

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Kirk Freeman]

kov, the constitutionality of the license was challenged in the '50s in a case entitled Matthews.

The license was upheld as the Indiana Supreme Court used a lesser standard of review for the right to keep and bear arms.

I can go on at length if you tell me your eyes will not glaze over.

 

[Scutter01]

I can go on at length if you tell me your eyes will not glaze over.

Please do. I'm gonna need 5000 words by the end of the day.

 

[koveras225]

kov, the constitutionality of the license was challenged in the '50s in a case entitled Matthews.

The license was upheld as the Indiana Supreme Court used a lesser standard of review for the right to keep and bear arms.

I can go on at length if you tell me your eyes will not glaze over.

Please do. I'm gonna need 5000 words by the end of the day.

Indeed, I'm curious enough about it that I'm not going to be bothered by long boring legal details... Of course a link or something would do just fine too

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Of note, if someone at the place you want to shoot is going to buy your firearm from you and sell it back to you at a later time, the place you shoot would possibly be defensible as a "place of purchase", and thus legal to transport the firearm there unloaded and in a secure wrapper. The same applies if there is a gunsmith (aka a "place of repair") where you're going to shoot. There is nothing in the statute that requires that any repair actually take place.

Bill no idea of any case law for it, but the way the code is worded it is legal to transport a handgun from place of purchase to your home or business, not to take it to a place to sell. Now if someone there came by his home and bought it and took it home, then he bought it back and brought it back to his home, that would be legal.
(11) any person while carrying a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or in moving from one dwelling or business to another.

kov, the constitutionality of the license was challenged in the '50s in a case entitled Matthews.

The license was upheld as the Indiana Supreme Court used a lesser standard of review for the right to keep and bear arms.

I can go on at length if you tell me your eyes will not glaze over.

I wouldn't mind reading it also.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Bill no idea of any case law for it, but the way the code is worded it is legal to transport a handgun from place of purchase to your home or business, not to take it to a place to sell. Now if someone there came by his home and bought it and took it home, then he bought it back and brought it back to his home, that would be legal.
...

Correct you are. I had recalled it saying "a place of purchase", not "the place of purchase". Thanks for the correction! Rep to be added as soon as I post.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[nhickey121]

newb too the pistol world...what exactly is the ltch? i know i should know this being in the military and owning a pistol and all lol

 

[MrsGungho]

newb too the pistol world...what exactly is the ltch? i know i should know this being in the military and owning a pistol and all lol

License to Carry handgun. This is what you need to carry a handgun on yourself or in your car legally in Indiana

 

[Bondhead88]

License to Carry handgun. This is what you need to carry a handgun on yourself or in your car legally in Indiana

What about carrying on an elephant? I always wanted to cc on an elephant..maybe even oc...lol