If you OC

[lovemachine]

If you carry a gun, or even own a gun, for protection, you HAVE to be prepared for the unthinkable.

These "Internet commandos" actually may know what they're talking about.

 

[jsharmon7]

IMO you have a better chance of being shot by a Gunsite level shooter than being attacked when OCing

Sweet! No need to carry with one in the chamber then I guess. Really, no need to carry any ammo in the magazine either, that should really save some weight. I wonder how much lighter and easier to carry a really realistic looking airsoft gun would be than a real pistol, not to mention the money saved on the gun, ammo, and accessories.

I train for what might happen, IMO this won't happen, never has, I'll train for realistic situations, not for Internet commando made up crap

What do you train for then, if being attacked is so highly unlikely? Protecting strangers?

All kidding aside, the OC vs. CC debate has got to be the most childish debate in the history of INGO. If you don't like OC, why even make a comment on it? If somebody makes a comment against OC, why even respond to them? I'm all for debate but the same handful of tired arguments regarding OC vs. CC are inevitably bandied back and forth with nothing ever gained or lost. ATM had the right idea to create a separate thread for it, can we leave that handful of stale arguments over there?

And George is right, if you're going to OC (or CC for that matter) you need to have some basic preparedness in the event of a gun grab. All of this "never gonna happen cuz Google said so" stuff is really dangerous. Somebody might someday grab for your gun, be prepared. Somebody might one day attack you while you're OC'ing, be prepared.

 

[Hoosierdood]

But how do you know it won't happen? It's a possibility that it could happen. I know for a fact, because it happened last year, that a guy was distracted by a BG coming up to him asking for money, and the BG immediately punched him in the face. While another guy came from behind and knocked him to his knees.

**** happens. Especially when you don't expect it. You're an idiot if you don't train for the most unrealistic possibilities. Because there is always the chance it could happen.

And I'm talking about quality training. Not that back yard crap.

Wow. So, did the bad guys take the guys gun?

 

[lovemachine]

Wow. So, did the bad guys take the guys gun?

He wasn't carrying. But the fact is, he was distracted. He wasn't prepared for the attack from behind.

Which just proves you need to train and be ready for any possibility. Even for the possibility of someone taking your own gun. OCing or CCing. There's always a chance.

 

[DRob]

OP tricked me

Somehow, I thought the OP was going to be more like...........

"If you OC"...........you might be a redneck!

OK. OK. Just kidding.

 

[Dwhizzle74]

you should always try to keep a eye on your suroundings however i have came to the conclusion that if a bg is within 21 feet with a knife im prolly gettin a new scar its where that scars gonna be? never had any formal training just been around the block a few times but i can promise you that i wanna live and breath more than he does and i feel that gives me the upper edge if they gotta gash my left arm so i can get my 454 out.......long as i kiss my kids that night

 

[mercop]

Don't focus on the gun, and don't stand still

 

[Dwhizzle74]

oh the guns my last concern and belive the last thing id be doin is standin there i just think from what ive seen,researched, and heard your prolly getin cut no matter if youve had training maybe im wrong and theres just some bad SOB'S out there that will take that bg's knife away while smokin a ciggerette i just cant afford that training and in my life it seems a lil impractical just my opinion however im young im still in that invinciable mindstate i wouldnt just let someone hurt me tho

 

[mercop]

I disagree, I teach it and pressure test it in four hours. Not only against a charging attacker at 21 feet but against someone shaking you from behind. I would not expect to get cut if attacked anymore than I would expect not to get cut. Things happen- George

 

[Hoosierdood]

How many times has this happened to an OCer?

IMO you have a better chance of being shot by a Gunsite level shooter than being attacked when OCing

Maybe you don't get it, criminals choose the easy path, they attack people that they think they can win against, someone with a gun is generally referred to as a hard target, criminals choose soft targets

I train for what might happen, IMO this won't happen, never has, I'll train for realistic situations, not for Internet commando made up crap

But how do you know it won't happen? It's a possibility that it could happen. I know for a fact, because it happened last year, that a guy was distracted by a BG coming up to him asking for money, and the BG immediately punched him in the face. While another guy came from behind and knocked him to his knees.

**** happens. Especially when you don't expect it. You're an idiot if you don't train for the most unrealistic possibilities. Because there is always the chance it could happen.

And I'm talking about quality training. Not that back yard crap.

He wasn't carrying. But the fact is, he was distracted. He wasn't prepared for the attack from behind.

Which just proves you need to train and be ready for any possibility. Even for the possibility of someone taking your own gun. OCing or CCing. There's always a chance.

Sorry, but I gotta go with SJ on this one. Your scenario isn't valid because the guy wasn't carrying. Would the bad guys have done that had he been OC? I guess we will never know, but I would say 99% sure that they would have chosen an easier target. The OP's original "punch in the nose" scenario is unrealistic as well. How many times has someone just walked up to you, unprovoked, and blind sided you with a punch to the nose? I would think that if a confrontation escalated to the point of throwing punches, you would already be aware of the threat and would be somewhat protecting/covering your gun.

Like SJ said, I train for what is realistic. I don't enlist in SPECOPS/Counter Terrorism training courses, because my chances of ever being involved in such a situation are slim. Could a suicide bomber blow himself up in the middle of the mall? Sure, it COULD happen. But is it likely? NO. So I don't wear body armor and a helmet.

My chances of anyone ever attempting to take my gun out of its holster without my knowledge are EXTREMELY rare. The chances of them actually taking it are even more rare. So I choose to spend my time training for situations that are more realistic.

Maybe I should restate what has already been stated. Show me 1 instance of an OC'er who had their gun taken from its holster. (1 instance shouldn't be too hard to find if it really is that common an occurance)

 

[lovemachine]

Then I feel sorry for you. If you're ever in that situation, you'll be shocked that despite your beliefs, it actually happened, and you won't know what to do.

And I'm not only talking about OCing, I'm also talking about CCing. Theres a chance of ANYTHING happening. Just because you don't believe it's realistic or even possible, it doesn't mean it won't happen.

Why not train for that situation anyway? We have guys on this forum that are prepared for ANY kind of SHTF situation. Yet nobody is saying how unrealistic that situation is. They've made sure they are ready for it.

Why not be ready just in case? You and I aren't Sheeple. We depend on ourselves to protect our own lives and our loved ones. Why NOT be ready for anything?

Sorry, but I gotta go with SJ on this one. Your scenario isn't valid because the guy wasn't carrying. Would the bad guys have done that had he been OC? I guess we will never know, but I would say 99% sure that they would have chosen an easier target. The OP's original "punch in the nose" scenario is unrealistic as well. How many times has someone just walked up to you, unprovoked, and blind sided you with a punch to the nose? I would think that if a confrontation escalated to the point of throwing punches, you would already be aware of the threat and would be somewhat protecting/covering your gun.

Like SJ said, I train for what is realistic. I don't enlist in SPECOPS/Counter Terrorism training courses, because my chances of ever being involved in such a situation are slim. Could a suicide bomber blow himself up in the middle of the mall? Sure, it COULD happen. But is it likely? NO. So I don't wear body armor and a helmet.

My chances of anyone ever attempting to take my gun out of its holster without my knowledge are EXTREMELY rare. The chances of them actually taking it are even more rare. So I choose to spend my time training for situations that are more realistic.

Maybe I should restate what has already been stated. Show me 1 instance of an OC'er who had their gun taken from its holster. (1 instance shouldn't be too hard to find if it really is that common an occurance)

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Throw me in with SJ and Hoosierdood. If we tried to be prepared for every single possible scenario we would never be able to live our lives. Hell think about it, MOST people live perfectly normal lives and never carry any kind of weapon or have any training what-so-ever.

I think that having proper awareness of your surroundings, training when possible, being profecient with whatever you decide to carry or use is more than adequate for all but the rarest and impossible scenarios.

After all, someone can just randomly come up behind an OCer and shoot them in the back of the head so how much training does it take to make my Spider-Sense kick in?

 

[sj kahr k40]

Since some of you train on what "might" happen, let me throw this scenario out there, you are swimming in a rooftop pool and a sniper shoots you from another roof, that " might" happen, how do you train for it?

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Since some of you train on what "might" happen, let me throw this scenario out there, you are swimming in a rooftop pool and a sniper shoots you from another roof, that " might" happen, how do you train for it?

Been watching too much Dirty Harry?

 

[schapm]

In The Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry, Massad Ayoob gives some examples of open carriers (not LEOs) who've had their guns grabbed by criminals. Rest assured that this can and does happen. Ayoob likes guns with manual safeties for open carry due to the chance that the criminal will be unfamiliar with your weapon and be unable to shoot you immediately, thus buying you time to react and save your life. In the same book he cites examples of this happening with both a 1911 and an HK P7.

 

[lovemachine]

In The Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry, Massad Ayoob gives some examples of open carriers (not LEOs) who've had their guns grabbed by criminals. Rest assured that this can and does happen. Ayoob likes guns with manual safeties for open carry due to the chance that the criminal will be unfamiliar with your weapon and be unable to shoot you immediately, thus buying you time to react and save your life. In the same book he cites examples of this happening with both a 1911 and an HK P7.

Careful, the Internet "know-it-alls" will argue with ya

 

[esrice]

In the same book he cites examples of this happening with both a 1911 and an HK P7.

The P7 incident he references happened to a gun dealer right here in Indy IIRC.

you are swimming in a rooftop pool and a sniper shoots you from another roof, that " might" happen, how do you train for it?

This one's easy-- don't make enemies with a rooftop sniper.

 

[lovemachine]

Since some of you train on what "might" happen, let me throw this scenario out there, you are swimming in a rooftop pool and a sniper shoots you from another roof, that " might" happen, how do you train for it?

According to MacGruber, nobody will shoot you if you run around without any pants, and have a stalk of celery hanging outta your butt.

 

[schapm]

The P7 incident he references happened to a gun dealer right here in Indy IIRC.



This one's easy-- don't make enemies with a rooftop sniper.

You are correct about the P7 incident. I never swim without my plate carrier.

 

[24Carat]

I am disabled, with chronic back pain from any physical activity. I am fat and slow. I carry. My wife knows that if a situation should arise that I will execute what I fondly call the "Tail Between Legs Retarded Rainman" persona. Meaning, if she sees me stick my right hand in my overalls pocket (where my .380 is) like it is paralyzed, drop one shoulder and drag one foot she needs to get behind me or walk away. Babbling incoherently pretty much changes the dynamic. Ever seen a bunny with fangs? I know, I know, time may not permit this approach. That is why constant situational awareness is more important than anything discussed in this thread.