How would you like to be treated by law-enforcement?

[melensdad]

Last time I checked, civil servants do not report directly to me, are not paied directly by me, and don't get promoted or demoted based on my simple whim.

. . . Apparently there are still some people that think thats exactly what civil/public servant stands for. . .

Wow that must be tough for guys like you. If there is a rowdy crowd of 100 people and each is barking different orders to you I'll bet you get so confused that you forget to ask each of them if they 'want fries with that' when you respond to their orders.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Last time I checked, civil servants do not report directly to me, are not paied directly by me, and don't get promoted or demoted based on my simple whim.

If they did I would surely be kissing your butt, I want to make Sgt.

Wow that must be tough for guys like you. If there is a rowdy crowd of 100 people and each is barking different orders to you I'll bet you get so confused that you forget to ask each of them if they 'want fries with that' when you respond to their orders.

If there's a rowdy crowd of 100, I'm deploying pepperball!

 

[melensdad]

If they did I would surely be kissing your butt, I want to make Sgt.

You forgot to ask if I wanted fries

 

[Jack Burton]

But a 'civil servant' is not a servant in the true sense of the word. They are there to do a task within the context of their jobs, not to cater to the whims and wishes of individual taxpayers. They report to their employer, who is their department (be it police department, dept of motor vehicles, dept of natural resources, school board, etc etc), not to the individual citizens.

If they reported to individual citizens then we could ask them to bring us coffee when we are sleepy and need to stay awake. Their function is to protect the general order of society.

Who ever said a civil servant was to "cater to the whims and wishes of individual taxpayers."? That's pretty much a strawman argument.

And their employer is the public. The organization that manages them is merely the vehicle by with the public chooses to keep track of various functions and policies. Those organizations then report and are responsible to the public.

And what's up with this "coffee" thing. Again, a manifestation or fixation with linking the word "servant" with the word "menial." Some servants are menials but that is pretty much built into the individual job description. If you see such wording in the job description for a LEO please point it out to everyone.

 

[melensdad]

NOPE, their employer is their department. They answer to their superior like a chief or captain, who has instituted a set of polices and rules that they must follow. The chief/captain reports to a political appointee called a superintendent. The superintendent answers to the mayor, who answers to the public.

 

[Jack Burton]

My response was based on the context used by ThrottleJockey. Not really a reason to make a veiled personal insult toward me, but do whatever makes you feel good about yourself.

Really? That's an "insult" to you. Little thin-skinned there, eh.

Apparently there are still some people that think thats exactly what civil/public servant stands for.

Why don't you find some actual quotes or statements from all these mythical people, then, instead of willfully continuing to confuse the issue with no distinction between servant and menial.

 

[THard6]

I would like to be left alone. If, for some reason, you decide you have to talk to me, how about...

Officer: excuse me, do you have a license to carry?
Me: yes, sir.
Officer: ok, have a nice day.

End of encounter.

ohh so we're just supposed to takew your word for it?
uhhh NO.
Officer: did you shoot her
me: no
officer: ok, thank you.
WRONG

 

[7urtle]

the officer not repeatedly ask a question if i answered it.

 

[Jack Burton]

NOPE, their employer is their department. They answer to their superior like a chief or captain, who has instituted a set of polices and rules that they must follow. The chief/captain reports to a political appointee called a superintendent. The superintendent answers to the mayor, who answers to the public.

Akin to saying that a janitor is not an employee of Walmart because he answers to the store facilities manager instead of directly to the CEO of Walmart.

 

[Bunnykid68]

ohh so we're just supposed to takew your word for it?
uhhh NO.
Officer: did you shoot her
me: no
officer: ok, thank you.
WRONG

Shooting someone is illegal, unless self defense, carrying a firearm with a license is not. We should not even need a damn license to begin with.

I would take his word for it and even take your word for it if you had a gun in a holster, I mean, where is the injured party when one is carrying a gun in a holster?

 

[Roadie]

ohh so we're just supposed to takew your word for it?
uhhh NO.
Officer: did you shoot her
me: no
officer: ok, thank you.
WRONG

Wow, comparing carrying a gun, to murder.. I am speechless

 

[melensdad]

Akin to saying that a janitor is not an employee of Walmart because he answers to the store facilities manager instead of directly to the CEO of Walmart.

Your logic is both flawed and incongruent.

 

[Jack Burton]

Your logic is both flawed and incongruent.

Which one of us is arguing that a person hired at the public desire, under the public responsibility, and being paid for by the public is not actually a public servant?

 

[ThrottleJockey]

You brought up the "servant" b.s.

So then you deny that police are PUBLIC SERVANTS? Or do you deny that I pay taxes and you don't? Maybe it's that you deny your income is derived FROM taxes? Sure I called police servants BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE and until they get that figured out, we're going to keep having problems. They are not authority, but rather SERVANTS granted certain authorities BY THE PUBLIC THEY SERVE.

 

[melensdad]

Which one of us is arguing that a person hired at the public desire, under the public responsibility, and being paid for by the public is not actually a public servant?

Hired at the public desire? No sir. Hired to preserve order by a government entity (the police department) that works for another government entity (the city) which, therefore isolates it from the whims of the public desire.

Yes, paid for by the public, but indirectly through a convoluted tax code which allows roughly 47% of the public to not pay their share. How can a non-paying citizen be a boss? Yet the non-paying citizens often get the highest levels of service.

Again, you have seriously flawed logic.

 

[lrahm]

NOPE, their employer is their department. They answer to their superior like a chief or captain, who has instituted a set of polices and rules that they must follow. The chief/captain reports to a political appointee called a superintendent. The superintendent answers to the mayor, who answers to the public.

I agree. My pay comes from the people who pay property taxes in my city. We serve the public and answer to our employer. We are governed by rules and regulations and enforce the state laws. We answer to complaints from the public through our staff. If the complaint is criminal in nature a file will be turned over to the local prosecutor.

 

[thebishopp]

Hired at the public desire? No sir. Hired to preserve order by a government entity (the police department) that works for another government entity (the city) which, therefore isolates it from the whims of the public desire.

Yes, paid for by the public, but indirectly through a convoluted tax code which allows roughly 47% of the public to not pay their share. How can a non-paying citizen be a boss? Yet the non-paying citizens often get the highest levels of service.

Again, you have seriously flawed logic.

Actually they are hired at the "public desire" in order to preserve order. If enough of the "public" (or at least enough of the influential public) didn't want police do you really think they would exist?

If you think a police department is isolated from the "whims of the public desire" you are mistaken. Granted while most law enforcement agencies can "get away" with some things, **** off the wrong "public" and see how isolated you are from the "whims" of said "public".

Actually I think the rich or influential tend to get the "highest level of service".

No disagreement from me about how messed up our tax code is.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

So then you deny that police are PUBLIC SERVANTS?

I don't know who originally came up with that moniker, but yes, I do deny that I am your "servant." I may provide a service to you when you request my presence, but I do not cater to your wants or desires.

Or do you deny that I pay taxes and you don't? Maybe it's that you deny your income is derived FROM taxes?

I pay taxes, more or less than you do depending on who has the higher salary. I don't deny that my income is derived from taxes, but my salary isn't the only thing paid for by them. And the portion of your taxes that goes toward my salary is so minute that until you start paying a majority of my salary I don't owe you, or any other single taxpayer, any special treatment.

Sure I called police servants BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE and until they get that figured out, we're going to keep having problems.

So how would you like me to serve you? I'm not much of a cook but I am good at washing dishes and cleaning the house.

They are not authority, but rather SERVANTS granted certain authorities BY THE PUBLIC THEY SERVE.

Here we go, back to the whole "servant" thing. If I'm not mistaken, the authority of the police comes from the Legislature. Maybe you should take up your gripes with them.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Wow, comparing carrying a gun, to murder.. I am speechless

Kind of as ridiculous as comparing cops to Nazis.

 

[Jack Burton]

Hired at the public desire? No sir. Hired to preserve order by a government entity (the police department) that works for another government entity (the city) which, therefore isolates it from the whims of the public desire.

Yes, paid for by the public, but indirectly through a convoluted tax code which allows roughly 47% of the public to not pay their share. How can a non-paying citizen be a boss? Yet the non-paying citizens often get the highest levels of service.

Again, you have seriously flawed logic.

Don't understand the concept of public desire either, eh. The public desires a peace keeping force that has investigative powers and can enforce the law. Do you actually want to argue that is is not a true. public desire and accounts for the fact that we have LEOs. Should be entertaining to read.

Don't really understand the concept of government either. He keeps quoting "government entity" as if it was a talisman to scare off the boogie under the bed. Teddy Roosevelt answers him by saying, "The government is us; we are the government, you and I." He should be saying the "You and I entity" eh.

Doesn't understand taxes either, along with the other stuff. He's busy talking about the 47 percent that don't pay income tax, and completely forgetting about the multitude of other taxes that tend to pay local stuff, such as property and sales tax, which we all pay one way or the other.

This total lack of understanding explains so much as to why it is difficult to have reasonable discussions about issues nowadays with so many people. The context of critical concepts and the meaning of words just doesn't exist as well as it should.