Homeless man shot to death by police while “illegally camping” in NM foothills

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  • Eric0321

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    Jun 9, 2010
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    So let me get this straight.... You were in Iraq, found an armed person, making threats, in a prohibited area, AND you didn't smoke them? I'll be honest, in a war zone, that sounds reckless.

    You are creating your own picture of what may have transpired. I don't need to justify myself any further than the fact that my fellow marines and I are alive and uninjured. I made the right decision based on what my instincts were telling me at the time. There were plenty of other situations where I did engage, again the right decision. Were mistakes ever made? Sure, some of them that I witnessed were terrible but understandable under the circumstances. I'll even give you one example: We had checkpoints with wire and signs in Arabic saying to stop set up to prevent vehicles from entering our AO because the bad guys were driving vehicles laden with explosives into our lines. We had one car crash through the outer wire and come barreling towards us. A burst was shot in front of the car as a warning to stop, he didn't, so the gunner then fully engaged. It was a guy with his kid in the back. This was absolutely terrible and really played hell on our morale. We couldn't understand why in the hell the guy would do this. We hated them for things like this. We still didn't murder them because we felt like we were in danger; we still gave them every chance to retreat or surrender.

    If I had encountered the victim in this video during Iraq, I would have easily incapacitated him without killing him.
     
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    Kutnupe14

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    You are creating your own picture of what may have transpired. I don't need to justify myself any further than the fact that my fellow marines and I are alive and uninjured. I made the right decision based on what my instincts were telling me at the time. There were plenty of other situations where I did engage, again the right decision. Were mistakes ever made? Sure, but I don't need to talk about those here. I can thankfully say that nobody died by my hands who didn't warrant it, in my opinion.

    So essentially, you're saying "if you weren't there participating, then your opinion is poo"?

    Let's be honest, the way you framed your particular situation is completely FUBAR. You said that your situation was "worse," and that they were wielding "much deadlier weapons."
    I cannot for the life of me envision a "worse" situation where a potential enemy combatant, who is in a US military controlled space, is armed with "deadlier weapons," threatening to kill soldiers, and refusing to leave doesn't meet his maker promptly.

    I personally think you took a literary license, and maybe added a bit of hyperbole.
     

    Eric0321

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    Jun 9, 2010
    107
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    I modified my post a bit as you were replying.

    Where are you getting "a prohibited area" And "US military controlled space"? I was in their country, in their cities, in their homes.
     
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    rambone

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    Mar 3, 2009
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    Angry citizens staged an protest that drew out the brunt of the APD once again. The police showed the townspeople that they weren't so brutal by gassing them and galloping after them with horses.

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    Kutnupe14

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    Why is it always the "interesting" looking people that protest? Why don't we ever see somebody in a tie or something?

    Oh, probably because people with ties have jobs.
     
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    Aug 23, 2009
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    Why is it always the "interesting" looking people that protest? Why don't we ever see somebody in a tie or something?

    Oh, probably because people with ties have jobs.

    If Albuquerque wasn't so damned far away I would have been out there protesting.

    I don't wear neckties anymore, don't even own one. The last time I took off that uniform I swore I'd never wear a necktie again. I only wear bolos now. Far more comfortable and WAY more stylish.

    In Albuquerque my Zuni Indian tie would have been De Rigueur.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    If Albuquerque wasn't so damned far away I would have been out there protesting.

    I don't wear neckties anymore, don't even own one. The last time I took off that uniform I swore I'd never wear a necktie again. I only wear bolos now. Far more comfortable and WAY more stylish.

    In Albuquerque my Zuni Indian tie would have been De Rigueur.

    Lol, well since you threw in the bowtie, you have to admit it's an interesting look.... and you're retired, right? So you meet both of my requirements to protest, ha,ha.
     

    BigBoxaJunk

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    Feb 9, 2013
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    So essentially, you're saying "if you weren't there participating, then your opinion is poo"?

    Let's be honest, the way you framed your particular situation is completely FUBAR. You said that your situation was "worse," and that they were wielding "much deadlier weapons."
    I cannot for the life of me envision a "worse" situation where a potential enemy combatant, who is in a US military controlled space, is armed with "deadlier weapons," threatening to kill soldiers, and refusing to leave doesn't meet his maker promptly.

    I personally think you took a literary license, and maybe added a bit of hyperbole.



    You're right, he obviously made the whole thing up. No former soldier's gonna pull my leg by telling me that he had the justification to "smoke" a person and passed on it.
     

    88GT

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    Mar 29, 2010
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    Familyfriendlyville
    If a man pulls a knife on a civilian, INGO says shoot.

    If a man pulls a knife on a cop, INGO wants to side with the guy pulling the knife?

    Last I checked cops are people too. The fact they didn't shoot him as soon as he presented a knife shows they trying for this to end peacefully.
    And why did he bring out the knife? Who escalated it first? Let's walk this thing back and see what led to what.

    Homeless man shot; caused by homeless man pulling knife
    Homeless man pulls knife; caused by flashbang thrown
    Flashbang thrown; cause by ???????

    The immediately preceding action taking place was the homeless man surrendering. On what planet is a surrendering man justification for tossing a flashbang at his feet? And what did they hope to achieve by it?

    All the armchair quarterbacking in this thread is fun. So many people with zero or limited experience with the law or enforcing it are telling professionals they are wrong. I have no dog in the fight, but the professionals are the only one who have remained consistent in their responses throughout this thread.
    Professionals? Of what?

    Consistently defending an immoral act justified by law. Yeah, that's something to put on the resume.

    But he was on that land illegally and had been given three hours to resolve the situation. The police had to do something. Distracting him with a non-lethal grenade and sending a trained dog who likely wouldn't have killed him were decent options.
    Why? They spent 3 hours. Why not 4? Why not 5? Is a man's life worth so little that when the buzzer sounds, game's over and it's time to end it regardless of the outcome now?

    Never mind that he was already "ending it."

    Ok, my opinion on this. The legal right to engage with deadly force was there. However, (and at least from the brief clip I saw) it appears that the officers basically double crossed the guy. That bothers me.
    Kudos to you. I understand the officers were operating within the law, but that doesn't make it right. It makes it legal.
     

    Trooper

    Shooter
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    BBC News - Albuquerque protests over New Mexico police shootings protests going on now. the Miah type cop watch folks mostly

    What I fear is that this is going to go from people videoing cops to people coming with firearms to fight the police. To include counter snipers to take on police SWAT.

    This could get ugly, fast.

    This is from the police point of view. The protests are becoming riots.

    NM police protest turns violent, 'Anonymous' attacks department website
     
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