Help with generator...

[Ryninger]

Yes I did a search...

My wife inquired about getting a backup/standby generator for the house. We currently live in Greenwood, but plan on moving out into the country in 5-7 years... Called my dad who is an electrician and he recommended at least a 4kw unit. Our appliances are gas (furnace has DC variable speed motor) except dryer (which she knows won't be usable). Plus Fridge and deep freeze... Our main concerns are lights, heat, and keeping food from spoiling, and possibly AC if middle of summer... We've got two kids under the age of 3.

Would 4kw be sufficient or would you all recommend larger? For peace of mind I was thinking 7-8kw? What are respectable brands? We currently have gas, and if build next house it will has gas. If we buy and it doesn't have gas I don't have a problem buying a standalone tank of gas for generator.

For cost/value and limited expected use, what kind would you all recommend? Permanent standby or portable wired outside? Brand and capacity?

Thanks,
r

 

[redneckmedic]

I think you have your priorities well considered.... however take this as just one man's opinion.

In my house the priorities are...
keep food safe (frozen or cool)
keep well pumping
keep heat on (wood burning fireplace)
keep basement pumped

I have a small generator for the above, its only a dual 120v outlet so I leave room for self criticizing since my well needs 240v to run properly. However we have stored water also.

You are on track minus the lighting, LED lights use little to no power, and natural light and candles/flash lights should keep you G2G for "needed" lights. If you have an extened power outage, your schedule (day to day) will change a bit and staying up late into the night with electricity will be a low priority. Summer AC should be ignored, fans at best, but this is a mini survival.... time to put on the big boy pants

Survival isn't a single track mind either.... with a delayed power outage do you have a way of getting clean water also, stored food? Basic deterrents from looters? (protection if it gets that far).

Sorry to derail.

4Kw sounds a bit high... but Better to have and not need....

After a quick search I found one for about 800 and some change. Not bad, but again IMO a just bit much if you are on a tight budget.

I would build a small house for it outside. Make sure you have a vent and flashing for the muffler for both venting gases and heat defection. I like a semi permanent extension cord idea. The cord is permanent, but the generator gets moved to the location and fired up. If you do build a small house for it, make a concrete slab... and before you pour the concrete put a set of eye bolts in, so you can cable chain that sucker down..... for theft and all.

Sorry if I didn't stay on topic...

HTH RNM

 

[Tandem160]

Go as big as you can afford when it comes to your generator. As important as the generator is don't forget a transfer switch, as I type this I still don't have mine installed. Don't forget to run it when not needed to keep it running good when needed.

 

[bigg cheese]

I started a thread a few weeks ago regarding this:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...s/175721-generator_hookup_recommendation.html

I recommend something like the above. The city electrician wanted me to use a double-throw safety switch, thinking it was better for my needs. The problem with a double-throw is that it puts your WHOLE house on the generator which either wastes fuel, or forces you to run to every outlet in the house and unplug unneeded devices.

This will let you choose circuits that you want, and each breaker is a three-way -- Line, Off, Generator.

With this, you also have the added benefit of knowing when the power is back, since the rest of your non-genny circuits are still on the main.

I personally have a 5K generator. The twist-lock outlet can give 30 amps, but the cable that goes with the transfer switch only takes 20. I've got regular outlets as well that I can run with an extension cord into the house if necessary. Get at least a 12-gauge cord for that purpose..

 

[eldirector]

^^^^ I didn't know that even existed.

I'm in the same boat as the OP. We want a generator for emergencies as well. A little portable is handy, but not what I'm really looking for, and a "whole house" seems overkill (and expensive). I'd still like to plumb it into the NG line, though.

For sizing, there are tons of calculators online. They all seem to give similar results. Here is one I've used recently:
Kohler Power: Sizing Calculator: Solutions: Residential Home Generators

For essentially the same list as you (well, sump, freezer, fridge, and a few other low-wattage things), my total running watts is around 5K with everything on. Since you don't want to run a generator at 100% all of the time (I think "they" recommend 60-80% load, to leave some headroom for surges) I end up around the 8.5kW range as "recommended".

You could also use a smaller generator, and alternate what it powers. Lots of folks do this, and I remember my parents doing that as a kid (freezer for an hour, well pump for showers, and then the furnace until it was warm inside - repeat).

 

[Ryninger]

What brands are respectable? I don't need top of the line, just looking for quality well priced units/brands.

 

[bigg cheese]

^^^^ I didn't know that even existed.

The cool thing about this one is that you can get away with a cheaper, lower wattage generator. Run a fridge for a couple of hours, then shut it off and turn something else on.

If I was going to run all my appliances at once, I probably would have gotten an 8 or 10K.

 

[eldirector]

What brands are respectable? I don't need top of the line, just looking for quality well priced units/brands.

From my research: Honda (for gasoline) and Generac (gas/LP/NG/Diesel). Honda makes them up to the 5kW range or so, and Generac from small to running a whole building. Lots of other brnads are likely just as good. An indicator of quality SEEMS to be the noise level. The well-made generators are quieter - both the engine and the genset.

 

[bigus_D]

My (I believe) 7kw generac propaine genny is not as loud as my truck.

I've got an automatic transfer switch setup as well. This was outside of my skill set and was professionally installed. Now that I've seen it done, could probably do myself. A little expensive, but sure is nice to have heat or ac along with lights, fridge, etc.

We plan to stay put for 20-30 years, so looking at the cost spread over that term makes it more palletable.

 

[jeremy]

Do not buy into the it is better to have to big of a Generator theory...
Proper sizing DOES matter!!!

If your Generator is to large for the Load you are attempting to run you can ruin the Generator in a very short amount of time. The generator needs to be loaded within the 60%-90% range of its rated output. Meaning a 4Kw generator should be running not lower than a 2,400 Watt load to not exceeding a 3,600 watt load. If be ran for extended periods. Also do not forget to have several changes worth of filters and oil on hand as the Generator should be serviced in 24 Hour intervals if being ran for extended periods as well...

 

[Flyguy]

I have a Generac 20 KW on LP gas with automatic transfer switch. Love it!!

I realize that this might be overkill in most situations but it runs the whole house including the electric stove and clothes dryer all on at the same time. The big advantage is that if the power fails when there is no one home it starts automatically and transfers over. I have a well and a sump pump that must be able to run when we are not home. Two fridges and two deep freezers. It will also run the air conditioner as well but the problem with them is that they demand a lot of current to start up. A heating/cooling person can install a hard start capacitor on it to help with that problem.

 

[bigg cheese]

admittedly, I'm not a mechanic, nor do mechanical things come easily to me, but that's nothing like what the manual for mine says.

no more than 50% of maximum load (for fuel efficiency), and with the first oil change after 20 hours and after than every 100.

Just quoting the book, so not my words.

 

[jeremy]

admittedly, I'm not a mechanic, nor do mechanical things come easily to me, but that's nothing like what the manual for mine says.

no more than 50% of maximum load (for fuel efficiency), and with the first oil change after 20 hours and after than every 100.

Just quoting the book, so not my words.

I have rebuilt a LOT of Generators in the Army.

For Fuel Efficiency the Manual is right...
For Longevity though...
*There is also a Caveat on whether it is a Stator or Invertor Generator...


I would recommend dropping the Generator every 24 Hours of Service and at the MINIMUM, checking the Oil and cleaning the Air Filter. I do NOT go past 48 Hours on a complete Oil Change on one though. Oil is a cheap insurance policy to buy when you are betting against failure of the component.

YMMV though...

 

[bigg cheese]

duly noted. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[rtfisher1]

I just went through all this and ended up with a 5000 watt(6000 starting watts) generator. If you decide you might want hot water and have an electric water heater those usually require 4000-4500 watts.

Just fyi, I believe Tractor Supply is selling the Champion 3500 watt generator for $299 right now and the 5000 watt Champion is $499. Most reviews of the Champion have been pretty good. Many of the brands now use a "honda clone" engine and so far they seem to be holding up fairly well.


Todd

 

[yotewacker]

Take your wattage and divide it by the voltage to get amperes.
Take amperes times voltage to get wattage.
Take amperes times 175% to allow for motor starting. Such as air compressors
Take amperes times 125% to allow for smaller motors such as refrigerators or air conditioners.

I do this for a living.

 

[bigg cheese]

Take your wattage and divide it by the voltage to get amperes.
Take amperes times voltage to get wattage.
Take amperes times 175% to allow for motor starting. Such as air compressors
Take amperes times 125% to allow for smaller motors such as refrigerators or air conditioners.

I do this for a living.

i just look at the specs

 

[Iroquois]

when i bought this place i had little cash for while. i was concerned about power loss
in cold weather so i spent $150 for a 99% blue flame heater [30,000btu] and put it in the basement. 6mo later i found another on sale and put it on the other end of the basement.
60, 000 btus has been enough on several blackouts down to 4deg for days at a time.
i later bought a 8500 watt gen but when i hooked it up i found i could only use
about 6k in the direct hook-up to the house. i found a manual transfer box at menard's
for 50 amp a leg [120+120= 240]. in this box i have the well pump and some lights on
one leg and the fridge and freezer and furnace fan on the other. it h as always been
plenty of juice. my gen runs 14 hours on 6gal .
i leave the pilot on the heaters in cold weather so a power loss when i'm gone
won't cause big damage. i'm lucky i don't need a sump pump.
i guess my point is in a pinch i'd go with back up heat which runs with no juice.
if you have city water and no sump pump you you don't need a high surge wattage
to get by...4000watts should be plenty. if you have either of these you want 5500 or
more if you have both... and put these heavy starting loads on seperate legs of your
240 circuit. if in doubt call an electrician.
my next purchase will be a 3500 watt gen thats portable in case my big unit takes
a dump...at least i can run 1 thing at a time.

 

[Icarry2]

One aspect no matter what you have setup is that the legs must stay balanced. This means that each of the two 120 Volt legs must be as equal as possible.

IMHO If you know nothing about electrical work please consult someone who does, the risk of fire or burned up electrical devices is high if you don't setup things right... Plus you don't want to burn up a brand new genny..

Two smaller units may be a little more then one larger unit but it's better to have two sometimes..

If you search there are other discussions on here about generators, hooking them up, the use of transfer switches, balancing loads, etc.

 

[Whitsettd8]

If your old man is an electrician have him put an amp meter on your incoming lines. You can simulate the types of loads the generator will encounter and make a power decision from there. 4k is going to be a lot smaller then you think. Especially when the wife or kidos want to start watching tv or what not.
Generac would be my choice portable or standby.