HD Shotgun: 6 or 9 Shot?

[indiucky]

I have 6 and 8 shot in 12 gauge (Mossberg 500 and 870 Marine Magnum) but they stay in the safe. My HD shotgun is a Rossi Coach gun in 20 Gauge with ammo in a butt sleeve on the stock...What can I say...The wife hates pumps and 12 gauges and the HD gun has got to be one we are both comfortable with and that's the one she likes. I have got to admit that I like it as well and feel in no way less safe with the little SxS...

IMHO ofcourse.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

shotgun jubblies! Brilliant!

New band name?

 

[Bapak2ja]

What is the advantage of a shotgun over a semi-automatic pistol? My Taurus 24/7 Pro offers 17+1. Spare mag offers an additional 17. I can put a light on it or use a flashlight. It is small, no fear of banging on the walls if I have to turn on a dime, light weight, powerful (choose your caliber and use hollow points—choose your favorite manufacturer, too.), manageable recoil, etc. Seems like it does everything a shotgun would do except it throw multiple pellets instead of one hollow point.

Why not just carry the pistol—crap, carry two of them!

OK, sorry for the thread jack. Just curious.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What is the advantage of a shotgun over a semi-automatic pistol? My Taurus 24/7 Pro offers 17+1. Spare mag offers an additional 17. I can put a light on it or use a flashlight. It is small, no fear of banging on the walls if I have to turn on a dime, light weight, powerful (choose your caliber and use hollow points—choose your favorite manufacturer, too.), manageable recoil, etc. Seems like it does everything a shotgun would do except it throw multiple pellets instead of one hollow point.

Why not just carry the pistol—crap, carry two of them!

OK, sorry for the thread jack. Just curious.

Lots of reasons.

1) Sight radius. A longer sight radius makes it easier to stay on target. Think of a 5" barrel revolver vs a 2" barrel revolver. A slight sight misalignment with a 5" isn't a big deal at 15y, while the same amount of misalignment on a 2" may be a miss. Now make that a 18" barrel.

2) Damage. A 12g shotgun loaded with buck shot puts a lot more hurt on the target than a handgun. People fight through pistol shots fairly frequently. Not so much with good shotgun hits, its a fight ender in all but the most unusual circumstances.

3) Cost. For whatever reason, reliable and high quality shotguns are very reasonable on the pocket book vs similar quality handguns.

Pistols suck at stopping fights. Their advantage is in weight savings and concealibility. For home defense, neither of those matter much. A long gun is the way to go, and a shotgun is arguably the best of the best at short in-home ranges.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Lots of reasons.

1) Sight radius. A longer sight radius makes it easier to stay on target. Think of a 5" barrel revolver vs a 2" barrel revolver. A slight sight misalignment with a 5" isn't a big deal at 15y, while the same amount of misalignment on a 2" may be a miss. Now make that a 18" barrel.

2) Damage. A 12g shotgun loaded with buck shot puts a lot more hurt on the target than a handgun. People fight through pistol shots fairly frequently. Not so much with good shotgun hits, its a fight ender in all but the most unusual circumstances.

3) Cost. For whatever reason, reliable and high quality shotguns are very reasonable on the pocket book vs similar quality handguns.

Pistols suck at stopping fights. Their advantage is in weight savings and concealibility. For home defense, neither of those matter much. A long gun is the way to go, and a shotgun is arguably the best of the best at short in-home ranges.

Thanks for the education. I can understand the reasoning. Just a couple thoughts. I am not an expert, just a ordinary guy who has tried walking through my house with a Remington 870, a Mossberg 500 (old Westenrfield actually), a Glock 19 & 26; a Taurus 1911, 24/7 and 709; a Ruger SP101 and .380, and a Beretta 92fs—and an AR 15.

Regarding #1. Longer barrel makes for better targeting. No question. But if I can't bring it to bear on my target quickly accuracy is irrelevant. Narrow hallways and staircases impede movement and target acquisition for a long gun. Also, practice should improve marksmanship—even for 60-yr-old eyes. Finally, I can miss 50% of my shots with the 17+1 Taurus and still be equal to a nine round shotgun. Since my shotguns max out at 5 and 7 rounds, I am ahead with the pistol.

Regarding #2. You are correct, beyond question—more damage with a shotgun. But a couple rounds of 9mm hollow point does discourage the Bad Guy. I know, .45s are superior and folks get hit with a dozen 9mm and stay in the fight—I have read the same stories as the rest of the crew here. Yet, NATO still thinks the 9mm is adequate. It seems the question is, how much damage is required to stop the attack? Again, I have no military experience, no gunfight experience—just reading and training in local NRA classes.

Regarding #3. Agreed, shotguns are cheaper to purchase and the ammo is cheaper, too.

So, when the SHTF, or something goes boom, in the middle of the night, what do you grab? At this point, I will go with a flashlight and my Taurus. Think I will place the shotguns at strategic locations around the house, though.

Seriously, thanks for the education. Again, apology for the thread jack.

 

[thebishopp]

I have a 590a1 and I LOVE IT! Especially the bayonet!!! lol.

But seriously. Only thing about it that is a "con" is how darn heavy it is. Otherwise 9 shots of awesomeness.

18 versus 20" barrel? 2 inches? It's a 2" inch difference. We aren't talking about a part of the male anatomy here. In a long arm I can't see that extra 2 inches making it more or less compatible for "home defense" Worried someone is going to grab that extra two inches? Put a super sharp bayonet on it and let them grab that.

Oh and I have a collapsible and folding ATI stock on it that shortens it more than enough for me.

 

[thebishopp]

I have 6 and 8 shot in 12 gauge (Mossberg 500 and 870 Marine Magnum) but they stay in the safe. My HD shotgun is a Rossi Coach gun in 20 Gauge with ammo in a butt sleeve on the stock...What can I say...The wife hates pumps and 12 gauges and the HD gun has got to be one we are both comfortable with and that's the one she likes. I have got to admit that I like it as well and feel in no way less safe with the little SxS...

IMHO ofcourse.

I have a stoeger coach gun that sits next to the bed with an ammo sleeve on the stock as well. It's the only 12g shotgun the wife loves to shoot so I know she will use it (and that sucker is pretty small). It has compensated barrels as well so it even kicks less than my heavier mossberg.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Regarding #1. Longer barrel makes for better targeting. No question. But if I can't bring it to bear on my target quickly accuracy is irrelevant. Narrow hallways and staircases impede movement and target acquisition for a long gun. Also, practice should improve marksmanship—even for 60-yr-old eyes. Finally, I can miss 50% of my shots with the 17+1 Taurus and still be equal to a nine round shotgun. Since my shotguns max out at 5 and 7 rounds, I am ahead with the pistol.

Regarding #2. You are correct, beyond question—more damage with a shotgun. But a couple rounds of 9mm hollow point does discourage the Bad Guy. I know, .45s are superior and folks get hit with a dozen 9mm and stay in the fight—I have read the same stories as the rest of the crew here. Yet, NATO still thinks the 9mm is adequate. It seems the question is, how much damage is required to stop the attack? Again, I have no military experience, no gunfight experience—just reading and training in local NRA classes.

Regarding #3. Agreed, shotguns are cheaper to purchase and the ammo is cheaper, too.

So, when the SHTF, or something goes boom, in the middle of the night, what do you grab? At this point, I will go with a flashlight and my Taurus. Think I will place the shotguns at strategic locations around the house, though.

Seriously, thanks for the education. Again, apology for the thread jack.

No worries, I would just counter with a few additional thoughts. There are no wrong answers, do what's comfortable for you.

As for clearing stairs and hallways, I would suggest that this is bad tactics for home defense. There may be a time you have to clear your house, to get to another loved one, etc and give up the defensive advantage, but don't give it up just because. Ideally, you should set up an ambush. You have the advantage of cover, surprise, and you know their entry point and can be sighted in. Imagine walking down the hallway and having a mutual surprise encounter vs waiting for the door to your bedroom to open.

#2, Professionally, I've gotten to see lots and lots of folks shot. Shotguns are devastating at close range, exponentially more damaging than any common defensive handgun caliber. I've had people with a .357 lodged in their chest walking around and talking about it, a woman shot with a .45 that rode her rib around and never went into the organs of her chest, etc. etc. etc.. I can't think of any folks with a hit from a shotgun in the head, torso, or thighs who made it far.

 

[Bapak2ja]

No worries, I would just counter with a few additional thoughts. There are no wrong answers, do what's comfortable for you.

As for clearing stairs and hallways, I would suggest that this is bad tactics for home defense. There may be a time you have to clear your house, to get to another loved one, etc and give up the defensive advantage, but don't give it up just because. Ideally, you should set up an ambush. You have the advantage of cover, surprise, and you know their entry point and can be sighted in. Imagine walking down the hallway and having a mutual surprise encounter vs waiting for the door to your bedroom to open.

#2, Professionally, I've gotten to see lots and lots of folks shot. Shotguns are devastating at close range, exponentially more damaging than any common defensive handgun caliber. I've had people with a .357 lodged in their chest walking around and talking about it, a woman shot with a .45 that rode her rib around and never went into the organs of her chest, etc. etc. etc.. I can't think of any folks with a hit from a shotgun in the head, torso, or thighs who made it far.

Thanks for the advice. Lots to think about.

 

[Amishman44]

I'm looking at picking up my first and probably only shotgun for HD. I'm looking at a Mossberg 590A1 (for now it feels the best in my hands). One question I had was 6 shot (5+1) or 9 shot (8+1)? Everything I read is people saying go with the 6 shot (18.5 inch barrel) because it's easier to maneuver\lighter\etc. but I see ALOT of peoples setups with the 9 shot (20 inch barrel). The only shotty I have shot (get it!) was a 6 shot. I don't plan to hunt with it. Soo...what are your thoughts? I have a good sized home I guess, not alot of tight corners/hallways. I can't imagine using 5 rounds against a home invader but what do I know . If I run out it's to the Glock I go!
Is the 9 shot alot heavier? Nose heavier? Less recoil in the 9? Looking to hear from those who know. Also is a light a necessity? Seems harder to mount on the 20 inch so that may sway my choice. Or if you have a better recommendation let me know!

I would probably go with the shorter version...then mount a 4 or 5 round shot holder in a left-side-mount carrier! I would add a Tritium front sight to it and install a light! See first...shoot second!!!

 

[Amishman44]

No worries, I would just counter with a few additional thoughts. There are no wrong answers, do what's comfortable for you.

As for clearing stairs and hallways, I would suggest that this is bad tactics for home defense. There may be a time you have to clear your house, to get to another loved one, etc and give up the defensive advantage, but don't give it up just because. Ideally, you should set up an ambush. You have the advantage of cover, surprise, and you know their entry point and can be sighted in. Imagine walking down the hallway and having a mutual surprise encounter vs waiting for the door to your bedroom to open.

#2, Professionally, I've gotten to see lots and lots of folks shot. Shotguns are devastating at close range, exponentially more damaging than any common defensive handgun caliber. I've had people with a .357 lodged in their chest walking around and talking about it, a woman shot with a .45 that rode her rib around and never went into the organs of her chest, etc. etc. etc.. I can't think of any folks with a hit from a shotgun in the head, torso, or thighs who made it far.

I agree...and it doesn't have to be a 12 GA to have that effect either! My wife was not comfortable with the 12 GA I had as it was just too much kick for her...so I searched around and found Remington's 870 Tactical in 20 GA and got one for her! She LOVES it and she'll shoot it all day long! Throw some #3 shot in it and it's devestating at close rangers...with 7 in the tube +5 more on the youth butt stock I installed for her...it's ready! I know she'll pick it up if she needs anything!

 

[Zoub]

What is the advantage of a shotgun over a semi-automatic pistol? Seems like it does everything a shotgun would do except it throw multiple pellets instead of one hollow point.

OK, sorry for the thread jack. Just curious.

Handguns really can't blow someones head clean off with one well placed shot. Sure they can kill, but can they send teeth and brains down the hallway with half the skull?

Walking around corners and tight spaces with a heavy shotgun is not ideal. A light weight 16" AR is far easier for that and of course a handgun even easier. I keep a G21 in the center of my house with a handheld spotlight right next to it. I learned a long time ago, no matter what light you have, outside on a dark moonless night even 9 volt is not great. If I peak outside I see serious crap, I am going back for a bigger gun. In any direction you go in my home, you will find bigger guns and more handguns. It is like cooking, we have one hell of a lot of herbs and spices, half we buy, half we grow ourselves. Plenty to choose from when we cook.

But there is no blue ribbon for going fast, taking risks or using bad tactics. Once you set up in a defensive position, 5-10 rounds of shotgun ammo will change the course of history.

As a kid I saw a guy (#1) tell another guy(#2) he was going to kill him. #1 walked out of #2's home and went to get his rifle and then came back. This was a 6 plex type of building. He went up the front steps, opened the front door and guy #2 was waiting at the top of the stairs above the front door with his shotgun. One shot...............brains, bone and teeth all over the front sidewalk. Game over. #1 telegraphed his next move, #2 played defense and just quietly waited.

That is one of 2 shotgun head wounds I saw that year, both single shots, game over.

 

[seldon14]

What is the advantage of a shotgun over a semi-automatic pistol? My Taurus 24/7 Pro offers 17+1. Spare mag offers an additional 17. I can put a light on it or use a flashlight. It is small, no fear of banging on the walls if I have to turn on a dime, light weight, powerful (choose your caliber and use hollow points—choose your favorite manufacturer, too.), manageable recoil, etc. Seems like it does everything a shotgun would do except it throw multiple pellets instead of one hollow point.

Why not just carry the pistol—crap, carry two of them!

OK, sorry for the thread jack. Just curious.

Looks like the other guy already covered it, but generally unless we have to secure loved ones I think a lot of us plan on hunkering down in the bedroom or top of the stairs and making sure no one comes in/up. A shotgun (with proper ammo. NO BIRDSHOT) is going to have a much better chance of ending the encounter with one shot. That said be sure of your target AND what is behind it. Even #4 buck will go through some walls, and you are going to be responsible for every pellet that leaves the barrel. That's why I am a big fan of top of the stairs, you generally know your shot will be angled in the floor/ground so you don't have to worry about over penetration do much.

 

[wtfd661]

Thanks for the advice. Lots to think about.

Another thing to think about would be my 590A1 carries 9 double ought buckshot rounds in it that translates to 81 .32 caliber pellets. Thats a lot of holes vs the 17 +1 9mm handgun.

 

[philbert001]

I used to have an 8+1 590, and loved it, but when my at the time girlfriend, (Now wife), moved in with me, and got into shooting, that measly 2 inches of additional length, plus the 3 extra rounds of #4 buck, just made it too nose heavy for her to be comfortable with. I sold it, bought the 5+1, and never looked back. She can shoulder it, without leaning backwards, and THAT is what matters! Moral of the story, if it's just you, and you want the big dog, buy the big dog. If someone of smaller stature may potentially have to use it to protect life and limb, I'd go with the 5+1! If 6 rounds of #4 buck, plus 6 more on the side saddle don't neutralize the threat, It's enough to get me to the safe, where the semi automatic rifles are! (As at this point there are multiple threats, because I'm a surgeon with a shotgun, and if 12 rounds don't get it done, there are a lot of baddies!)

 

[fg12351]

Thanks guys, I'm leaning toward the 5+1, throw a sling, light, and side saddle and be ready! Then I started looking at AR's hmmm...

 

[Jtgarner]

Thanks guys, I'm leaning toward the 5+1, throw a sling, light, and side saddle and be ready! Then I started looking at AR's hmmm...

I honestly say forget the sling on a HD gun. Your gun will be in your hand and the sling is just something for stuff to get caught on. If you need your hands for something and it is so dire that you would take them off your weapon anyway, you can just lay the shotgun down.

 

[Napalm217]

I honestly say forget the sling on a HD gun. Your gun will be in your hand and the sling is just something for stuff to get caught on. If you need your hands for something and it is so dire that you would take them off your weapon anyway, you can just lay the shotgun down.

I would have to agree that a sling on a home defense shotgun might not make that much sense. If anything the sling might get in the way if you are in a hurry to get to a ready position with the gun.

 

[FERLACH]

I personally like the shorter barrel, but that is just personal preferance.

 

[seldon14]

I would have to agree that a sling on a home defense shotgun might not make that much sense. If anything the sling might get in the way if you are in a hurry to get to a ready position with the gun.

I would disagree. I think this is one of the very few places a single point is in it's element.