Hammond Police, I just told off the Chief

[Jubbie]

I will not accuse the officer, if he is one, of lying. There is no way I can definitely prove it. All I am wanting is for the officer to know this law. Being an ordinary citizen I doubt they'll take much stock in what I tell them, most they'll do if I tell them is drive away. That's why when I call ISP today I'm going to ask them about who does training and if this is in the learning material. I'm really hoping the guy really didn't know, I'd hate to lose respect for the officers who try to protect the public. I've heard good things about the chief, but now I'm not personally impressed.

Please don't make this an OC vs CC thread. It's broken other threads that should have been discussed. If you want to go on with the fight there are specific threads just for this discussion.

 

[slacker]

Hammond only has an ordinance on the carry of firearms on city owned property, that is all.
.

Does the city own the streets though?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

That's why when I call ISP today I'm going to ask them about who does training and if this is in the learning material.

Most of it is conducted by Major Jerome "Jerry" Ezell, Indiana State Police.

I can say without any doubt that Major Ezell knows that Indiana does not specify open or concealed carry.

Without question, the officer that harrassed you knew the statute, but wanted to throw his badge around. It happens everyday. Heck, it happened to me in Broad Ripple in Indianapolis. It won't work for IMPD as I make a point to open carry when I am in Indianapolis.

I recommend a contacting an attorney and having a letter drafted to the Chief giving them notice of their error. This way you will have a paper trail for the next time you are harrassed.

 

[4sarge]

I will not accuse the officer, if he is one, of lying. There is no way I can definitely prove it. All I am wanting is for the officer to know this law. Being an ordinary citizen I doubt they'll take much stock in what I tell them, most they'll do if I tell them is drive away. That's why when I call ISP today I'm going to ask them about who does training and if this is in the learning material. I'm really hoping the guy really didn't know, I'd hate to lose respect for the officers who try to protect the public. I've heard good things about the chief, but now I'm not personally impressed.

Please don't make this an OC vs CC thread. It's broken other threads that should have been discussed. If you want to go on with the fight there are specific threads just for this discussion.

ISP, DNR and IMPD train their own officers. Fort Wayne may have their own training academy but all other full time officers are trained at the ILEA in Plainfield


Indiana Law Enforcement Academy
P.O Box 313
5402 Sugar Grove Road
Plainfield, Indiana 46168-0313
Phone: (317) 839-5191
Fax: (317) 839-9741

Historical Overview

The first basic law enforcement training course was conducted in the summer of 1969 at Indiana Central College, now the University of Indianapolis. In December of 1969, the Academy moved to the Indiana University campus at Bloomington, and remained there until January 1, 1975. On January 6, 1975 training began in the new facility at Plainfield.


In the 1980's the academy built a defensive driving course and a firearms range, resulting in two of the top training facilities of that kind in the nation. The Emergency Vehicle Operations Course (EVOC) includes over a mile of roadway and a large (500' x 700') skill pad, plus two large buildings. One of the buildings contains a classroom, conference area, office space and a maintenance garage. The other building is used for vehicle storage. Major renovations are planned for the course which will include a city grid, gravel roads and, we hope, an interstate on-and-off ramp.


The Academy leadership has encouraged logical overhauls in curricula, programs and structural renovations as well as adding state-of-the-art programs such as comprehensive domestic violence/sexual assault interdiction training, distance learning, and Basic Course Trainers to assist with the training of new recruits.

Law enforcement training has experienced many changes over the Academy's 30+ year history. We have expanded from basic training of new recruits to instructor, advanced, and chief of police training. A myriad of law enforcement organizations--municipal, county, state and federal--utilize our facility to train others as well as themselves.

The Law Enforcement Training Board and its Advisory Council, the Executive Director, and the Staff of the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy are looking into the future with genuine enthusiasm. Indiana law enforcement officers are, and will continue to be, an asset to their jurisdictions because of highly reputable and quality training provided at the Academy. We are "For All the People".


LETB certified Basic Academies/Staff

• Indiana Law Enforcement Academy at Plainfield
• Northwest Indiana Law Enforcement Basic Training Academy
• Indiana University Bloomington Law Enforcement Basic Training Academy
• Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department Basic Training Academy
• Fort Wayne Police Department Basic Training Academy
• Indiana State Police Basic Training Academy
• Southwest Indiana Law Enforcement Training Academy, Evansville

 

[spartan933]

Most of it is conducted by Major Jerome "Jerry" Ezell, Indiana State Police.

I can say without any doubt that Major Ezell knows that Indiana does not specify open or concealed carry.

Without question, the officer that harrassed you knew the statute, but wanted to throw his badge around. It happens everyday. Heck, it happened to me in Broad Ripple in Indianapolis. It won't work for IMPD as I make a point to open carry when I am in Indianapolis.

I recommend a contacting an attorney and having a letter drafted to the Chief giving them notice of their error. This way you will have a paper trail for the next time you are harrassed.

Major Ezell is a really good guy. My Dad's a lawyer and so is the Major so they know each other through that industry. Ezell is a highly respected member of the legal community as well as the LE community. I knew his wife, she was the school librarian when I was in Elementary school. Really classy lady and a good family.

But, I live in Hammond across from Purdue. I don't open carry because I live in an apartment building and I don't want people to know I have guns. Still though, this is Hammond. Open carry here is a deterrent.

Hypothetically, if an officer were to stop me on the street in Hammond and ask me for my LTCH due to OC'ing, it wouldn't bother me. As long as he was like, "Okay, that's cool, just checking."

 

[AFA1CY]

I have heard in the past (via police scanner), officers asking the dispatchers to cite code/ordinances when thay had questions. An officer can not know all the applicable laws, but not to ask for clarification is either lazy or just not due diligence.

 

[Boilers]

You are correct sir. So next time you are in Speedway, untuck

My smartcarry will look very odd.

 

[Hoosier8]

My smartcarry will look very odd.

Years ago, before I had any thought of even owning a gun, I saw someone OCing in a restaraunt. This was on the West side of Indy before it got bad and before all of the new restaraunts went up. Anyway, as I sat in a booth, 3 guys walk in and one was carrying a big revolver in an OC holster. Mind you, I did not feel threatened at all or anything like that, and I did not know what the law was, I just thought the guy was a dick because he was dressed sort of like Neo in the Matrix (this was before the Matrix ever came out). Someone young guy that was just trying too hard and trying to draw attention.

A little later a couple of police arrived and hauled him out of the restaraunt while he complained that he had a carry permit. He later came back in but I do not remember if he was OCing or not.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

As long as he was like, "Okay, that's cool, just checking."

Ummm, don't know if you have ever had a gun pointed at you for exercising your constitutional rights, I have.

You cannot count on the police encounter that you will have will be as you imagine it.

 

[IUGradStudent]

I recommend a contacting an attorney and having a letter drafted to the Chief giving them notice of their error. This way you will have a paper trail for the next time you are harrassed.

 

[AndersonIN]

I also agree. How rediculous. Wouldn't be the first time though, sadly.. Even on the federal level.

I really get my underwear in a bind is when we as citizens are told "ignorance of the law is no excuse"!

Well what about THEIR (the LEO's) ignornace of MY RIGHTS!

 

[cce1302]

You won't have to worry about it long.

With a bunch of cowboys rubbing their nose in it all over the state they will change the law soon and you'll have it 'ucked up for every one so you can play a smart alec Roy Rogers while you walk the dog.

Oh good, it took a whole 15 posts before the classic "OC is for cowboys and you're going to spoil it for everybody" line. Doesn't it get old? I thought we already had a thread for that nonsense.

Advice to the OP, carry with you a copy of the page from the ISP FAQ that was quoted above when you go to talk to the chief and maybe the number for ISP, so he can call and confirm that OC is indeed legal with a LTCH.

 

[gunbunnies]

Kirk how true that is.....

A traffic stop 15 minutes after the alleged incident of running a yellow light... Didn't do it but can't argue the point either. Police person stops me, ask's for my license and registration, then asks me to get out of the vehicle and places me at the rear of the vehicle standing with my hands on the trunk and starts to pat me down, all the time being told to shut up... I'm of course trying to tell the officer that I'm carrying a handgun and being told to shut up when doing so.... He finaly gets it and starts searching my pockets in my jacket... No, not there on my belt line where normal people carry pistols.... Finally he finds the pistol and it's a Beretta 92 so I warn him again that it is loaded with one in the chamber and the safety is off... Again told to be quiet... Now the officer asks how do I get the magazine out of the pistol ???? While pointing it in my back with his finger in the trigger guard... fumbling with the pistol and looking at me and the pistol continously... I told him the mag release was on the side of the grip at the bottom of the trigger guard like on a standard 1911 45, more fumbling, and finally brings the pistol down pointing to the ground with his finger on the trigger still... States stay put don't move, I'm putting your pistol in the squad while we finish here.... Get my warning for the yellow light, and then he puts my pistol with mag intact in the rear of my car and tells me to stay at the rear of the vehicle until he is gone.... What a experience

Welcome to Hammond....

By the way this was one Police person, not all Police Officer's... An Officer should know his law's, have a solid understanding of firearms, amoung other things such as safety, and first aid etc... Police person's don't seem to understand that... They just bully you around and make the Officers look real bad....

Hammond has proven that they have both Officer's and persons working here, the person's are the reason for there being so many Lawyers.....

4Sarge, that Plainsfield facility is one heck of training course for our LEO's, been there... not an Officer though as the State Pension board doesn't take my type, but I've seen what it's like to be Rufusized...... Excellent group of trainers down there..

 

[Jubbie]

Another forum I'm on had a post 1 1/2 weeks ago about an OC incident in Highland. From that whole ordeal there is now on Detective Commander on the Highland PD I am trying to contact. He actually researched the law and claimed OC was a new thing and he'd make sure to educate his force as well as other cities he has regular contact with. Apparently, Hammond hasn't been informed yet. I called Hammond PD, receptionist forwarded me to someone, and I left a voicemail. An hour and a half later I tried calling the Highland Officer and got his voicemail as well, but didn't feel like leaving one. I'll call him again in 20 minutes, I'd prefer to speak to a live person, but if I have to this time I'll leave a message.

I printed out the section off the ISP page "Firearms FAQ", just gotta wonder if they'll even bother with it. I can't really make it in to the station since I work the exact hours the station is open. Could always knock on the chief's door and hand it too him, but I'd rather go through government channels and not disrupt his personal life. He was in civilian clothes & vehicle when the event took place, but I'd rather make correspondance official.

 

[AndersonIN]

I just came upon a very interesting web site that lists many, most, maybe even all Police/Sheriff department in the state by county. Should assist us in locating phone # and email addresses to use when trying to make contact with departments:

Indiana police departments, sheriffs' offices, officers and other law enforcement agencies

 

[M9Hoosier]

Another forum I'm on had a post 1 1/2 weeks ago about an OC incident in Highland. From that whole ordeal there is now on Detective Commander on the Highland PD I am trying to contact. He actually researched the law and claimed OC was a new thing and he'd make sure to educate his force as well as other cities he has regular contact with. Apparently, Hammond hasn't been informed yet. I called Hammond PD, receptionist forwarded me to someone, and I left a voicemail. An hour and a half later I tried calling the Highland Officer and got his voicemail as well, but didn't feel like leaving one. I'll call him again in 20 minutes, I'd prefer to speak to a live person, but if I have to this time I'll leave a message.

I printed out the section off the ISP page "Firearms FAQ", just gotta wonder if they'll even bother with it. I can't really make it in to the station since I work the exact hours the station is open. Could always knock on the chief's door and hand it too him, but I'd rather go through government channels and not disrupt his personal life. He was in civilian clothes & vehicle when the event took place, but I'd rather make correspondance official.

I just read about that highland incident over at opencarry.org and was thrilled about the outcome. They are sending emails to all the local pd's about open carry. Finally they see the light!

 

[Jubbie]

Apparently not all the PD's, since Hammond wasn't in there when I spoke to him there are probably others. But with me calling him about it he's probably beginning to realize how widespread OC'ers are as well as Officers who don't know OC is legal.

 

[jennybird]

I really get my underwear in a bind is when we as citizens are told "ignorance of the law is no excuse"!

Well what about THEIR (the LEO's) ignornace of MY RIGHTS!

I suggest you stop wearing underwear. Just keep it in the glove box with your registration.

 

[Scutter01]

I still find it inconceivable that the Hammond PD doesn't know that OC is legal. There's still something fishy there.

 

[M9Hoosier]

I still find it inconceivable that the Hammond PD doesn't know that OC is legal. There's still something fishy there.

I am willing to bet they do know, they just don't want to acknowledge it.