Hammond Police, I just told off the Chief

[Jubbie]

Walking my dog and OC'ing like I do every day. All of a sudden a red pickup pulls over and the guy driving asks me if I'm an officer. I reply, "No." Then tells me to please cover my gun, it needs to be concealed. So I replied that I don't have to, the law in Indiana doesn't distinguish so I can carry how I want to. His response was to say that he was an officer and the law says I can't carry it openly, it has to be concealed. He sits there looking at me for 5 seconds before driving off. Gee, you'd think if I broke the law and he was a cop that he'd do more than just leave. I did get the license plate number. So once I get home after the walk I call the Hammond police station and ask about the carry law. I'm forwarded to an officer who tells me concealed is the only way, it's been that way for as long as he's had a permit. I try telling him it's a LTCH, but he continues to refer to it as a permit. I ask what law says it has to be concealed and he tells me I need to call the Indiana State Police in Indy for verification. Nobody answered at the firearm licensing #, so I'm gonna call back tomorrow when everyone is there. Since I knew the truck & license plate # I decided to see if the guy lives in my subdivision, c'mon if this guy claims to be a cop he better dang well be. This is where I started laughing. Found the truck parked in front of a police car on the side of the street, parked in front of the Chief of Police's house, Brian Miller. Apparantly the Highland Police Dept. hasn't gotten hold of the Hammond Police Dept (if you've read the thread about the Highland Meijer).

Figure I'm going to get state verification on the law, then go back to the Hammond police force to enlighten them as to the actual laws in Indiana. Just wanna make this as official as possible so it sinks in a little more.

 

[techres]

The state law sees no difference in carry method. However, there are some local restrictions that are grandfathered in from before the state pre-emption law was passed.

Hammond may have such a law.

 

[jedi]

So the Hammond Chief of Police was the one that stopped you? WOW! The Cheif does not know the law? Wow!

 

[techres]

You might PM Prometheus as I believe he is also form Hammond and is very up on the laws regarding carry.

 

[possum_128]

Here is a statement from the state poice web site found under firearm faq's:

Does Indiana statute require me to carry the handgun on my person concealed or
exposed?​

Indiana law is silent on this issue; however, carrying an exposed weapon in public may
alarm some people. Also, the right to carry a firearm may be restricted on private
property and businesses by the owners. Be attentive for signs warning of restricted
areas when carrying firearms into public places. If approached by law enforcement for
official business such as traffic stops or complaint related inquiries, it is recommended
that you tell the officer in a non-threatening manner that you are carrying a weapon or
have a weapon in the vehicle and that you have a valid permit. A law enforcement​

officer does have the right to inspect the permit.

Tell them to check with the state police not you!

 

[Prometheus]

You might PM Prometheus as I believe he is also form Hammond and is very up on the laws regarding carry.

Hammond only has an ordinance on the carry of firearms on city owned property, that is all.

It is against city ordinance to carry on any property owned by the city of hammond, including parks and libraries.

The city of Hammond can NOT pass any ordinances (nor do they have) on property not owned by the city.

FWIW When I was getting my Lifetime LTCH the large woman said the same thing she said 4 years earlier "you have to conceal it or you will go to jail". Not wanting to argue with a woman who had my lifetime LTCH app in her hand I remained silent.

Hammond PD DOES KNOW that open carry is legal. I have OC'ed in front of many an officer.

In fact, at cabelas grand opening week I had one of the floor managers confirm with 3 Hammond cops at the door that OC was, in fact legal.

My guess? This guy was trying to intimidate you into concealing and when you called his bluff he backed down.

 

[txgho1911]

An Officer Lies to a citizen should not just be a bluff. Should cause someone real pain. Same goes for those answering the phone at the PD. Making up laws out of thin air should cost something dear.

 

[aikidoka]

An Officer Lies to a citizen should not just be a bluff. Should cause someone real pain. Same goes for those answering the phone at the PD. Making up laws out of thin air should cost something dear.

I'm inclined to agree with that. It's one thing to be mistaken, which is bad enough, but just pulling it ouf the air?

 

[xamsx]

An Officer Lies to a citizen should not just be a bluff. Should cause someone real pain. Same goes for those answering the phone at the PD. Making up laws out of thin air should cost something dear.

I'm inclined to agree with that. It's one thing to be mistaken, which is bad enough, but just pulling it ouf the air?

I also agree. How rediculous. Wouldn't be the first time though, sadly.. Even on the federal level.

 

[jedi]

Hammond only has an ordinance on the carry of firearms on city owned property, that is all.

It is against city ordinance to carry on any property owned by the city of hammond, including parks and libraries.

The city of Hammond can NOT pass any ordinances (nor do they have) on property not owned by the city.

What do you know about the Town of Griffith?
Also I read somewhere (I think Handgunlaw.us) that stated that The City of East Chicago has an Assualt Weapons ban???

 

[gunbunnies]

It was my understanding that the only two cities in the state that had non compliant firearm laws on the books before the Governors Preemption act was signed was East Chicago and Gary... and these two cities were the reason the Preemption act was written and passed in the first place... I've never seen them inforce these laws though, and probaly because they would then have to prove thier constitutionality, and they probaly don't want to go there....

 

[Smitty506th]

I wonder what the president would say if you asked him if it had to be concealed. Pretty bad that a chief would tell you that and that the person answering the phone at the station would further a lie.

 

[darrent]

An Officer Lies to a citizen should not just be a bluff. Should cause someone real pain. Same goes for those answering the phone at the PD. Making up laws out of thin air should cost something dear.

Lying is a powerful tool for law enforcement. I know that it is not popular to say, but a good "bluff" can get a suspect to open up and give crucial information. There is no legal requirement to tell the truth to a suspect (just the court). Although this isn't the same situation - I just want to make sure it is not a blanket statement.

The funny thing is, the officer on the phone might not have been lying. He was probably explained what he thought the law is. It is not uncommon for an officer to accept what they are told by another officer without checking the Indiana Code or relevant case law. Besides, there are a lot of laws out there and even more legal decisions made everyday. That's tough to keep up with.

I doubt this provides comfort, but I really do not think it was malicious. For an experiment, try asking ten different officers concerning the law about assisted opening knives (like Kershaw - not a switchblade or ballistic knives). See how many of them tell you it is legal versus not. You might find that most of them either do not know or they give the wrong answer. Another fun one is the Chinese throwing stars .

 

[Rattlesnake46319]

What do you know about the Town of Griffith?
Also I read somewhere (I think Handgunlaw.us) that stated that The City of East Chicago has an Assualt Weapons ban???

Town of Griffith (found at Town of Griffith, IN )-

Sec. 46-28. Firearms. (a) No persons shall fire or discharge any gun, pistol, or other firearms, or any other weapon operated by means of any explosive charge or by springs or air power, or other means, or any other device having force directed by the user thereof within the town, except upon premises used by a duly licensed or approved shooting gallery, gun or rifle club, or archery range, or any program of organized training or practice in the use of firearms or other weapons approved and supervised by the chief of police, or such officer or other person as the chief of police shall appoint for such purpose. However, it shall not be unlawful to fire or shoot a bow and arrow, so long as the use thereof is restricted to areas at least 1,000 feet distance from any building whether occupied or unoccupied or within 1,000 feet distance of any public street, alley, or highway.

(b) No cannon or piece of artillery shall be discharged or fired off in any public way or other place within the town, except upon the express permission of the town council.

(c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to members of the police department or other peace officers engaged in the discharge of their official duties, nor to any person summoned by any of such officers to assist in making an arrest or preserving the peace while such person so summoned is engaged in assisting such officer, nor to sheriffs, coroners, or constables. The restrictions of this section shall not apply to the use or discharge of any gun loaded with blank cartridges when used in athletic contests.

(Code 1984, § 130.02(A))

State law references: Weapons offenses generally, IC 35-47-1-1 et seq.

Makes no statement about prohibited carry. IIRC, carry is prohibited in Town Hall, but allowed in the police station. Best bet would be to call GPD and ask. The office staff is knowledgable and most everyone on the force won't hesitate to say, "you know, I'm not sure. Let me check and I'll get back to you."

 

[Jack Ryan]

Walking my dog and OC'ing like I do every day. All of a sudden a red pickup pulls over and the guy driving asks me if I'm an officer. I reply, "No." Then tells me to please cover my gun, it needs to be concealed. So I replied that I don't have to, the law in Indiana doesn't distinguish so I can carry how I want to. His response was to say that he was an officer and the law says I can't carry it openly, it has to be concealed. He sits there looking at me for 5 seconds before driving off. Gee, you'd think if I broke the law and he was a cop that he'd do more than just leave. I did get the license plate number. So once I get home after the walk I call the Hammond police station and ask about the carry law. I'm forwarded to an officer who tells me concealed is the only way, it's been that way for as long as he's had a permit. I try telling him it's a LTCH, but he continues to refer to it as a permit. I ask what law says it has to be concealed and he tells me I need to call the Indiana State Police in Indy for verification. Nobody answered at the firearm licensing #, so I'm gonna call back tomorrow when everyone is there. Since I knew the truck & license plate # I decided to see if the guy lives in my subdivision, c'mon if this guy claims to be a cop he better dang well be. This is where I started laughing. Found the truck parked in front of a police car on the side of the street, parked in front of the Chief of Police's house, Brian Miller. Apparantly the Highland Police Dept. hasn't gotten hold of the Hammond Police Dept (if you've read the thread about the Highland Meijer).

Figure I'm going to get state verification on the law, then go back to the Hammond police force to enlighten them as to the actual laws in Indiana. Just wanna make this as official as possible so it sinks in a little more.

You won't have to worry about it long.

With a bunch of cowboys rubbing their nose in it all over the state they will change the law soon and you'll have it 'ucked up for every one so you can play a smart alec Roy Rogers while you walk the dog.

 

[theweakerbrother]

Tell him it is against the law to be a douchebag. Moral law.

 

[finity]

You won't have to worry about it long.

With a bunch of cowboys rubbing their nose in it all over the state they will change the law soon and you'll have it 'ucked up for every one so you can play a smart alec Roy Rogers while you walk the dog.

I'm not exactly sure I see the difference between OC'ing, people being upset about it & the law being changed so that nobody can OC anymore vs. nobody OC'ing so that people won't get upset & change the law.

Either way the end result is that nobody OC's.

If you don't OC (or is it act like a "cowboy"), why should you care if the law gets changed? It won't effect you anyway. If you do OC so are concerned about the effect the law will have on you, are you not then a Roy Rogers also? I don't get it.

Performing a legal act does not make someone a "cowboy". Does driving your car on the public street make you a smart alec Mario Andretti?

 

[Doug]

As I understand it, Speedway, Indiana has a grandfathered law prohibiting concealed carry, but it is not regularly enforced. If concealed is truly concealed, they wouldn't know. Open carry is, however, legal in Speedway.
Or so I'm told...

Doug

 

[AFA1CY]

As I understand it, Speedway, Indiana has a grandfathered law prohibiting concealed carry, but it is not regularly enforced. If concealed is truly concealed, they wouldn't know. Open carry is, however, legal in Speedway.
Or so I'm told...

Doug

You are correct sir. So next time you are in Speedway, untuck

 

[rhino]

No police officer could possibly know all of the laws, much like no physician could know about all of the available pharmaceuticals.

However, a doctor really needs to know everything about the drugs he prescribes to his patients. The same is true for any cop with respect to laws he chooses to enforce; he needs to know and understand them and he needs to act in good faith (i.e. be honest).

Clearly this is another example that holds only two possibilities:

1. The individuals in question are ignorant of the law, in which case their behavior is an exceptionally irritating and potentially dangerous bit of hubris.

2. They know the law and are lying.

Either case is bad, and I'm not sure which is worse. It could also be a combination of the two.

This reminds me of the stories I've read about Terre Haute. I noticed that when pressed by enough people to actually cite the Terre Haute ordinance that allegedly prohibitied open carry, the stories about police officers harrassing people lawfully carrying openly stopped.